What's Considered Cheese? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Member Wolfsheim242's Avatar
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    What's Considered Cheese?

    I often wonder at times what is considered 'cheese' for an IG army, and if my opponents say to themselves, "oh no, here we go again...Imperial Guard...they'll just sit and blast away with a Basilisk and heavy weapons...blah, blah, blah..."

    But is that 'cheese'?

    Would it be cheesey, let's say, to put 2 bassies in a 2k point list? Maybe throw in Yarrick and a conscript line for good measure?

    Can the argument be made that, if it is in your list and capability it's not cheese?


    Like, I think ALL Necrons are cheese (monoliths and all) but isn't that their design/ Can it be considered cheesey to play a Necron army when that's how GW designed them to be?



    Peace.


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    Senior Member Liffrea's Avatar
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    Personally I hate the term.

    If it's in the codex, it's legal. If I want to set my army up a certain way it's my choice. If I'm not breaking the rules it's no one elses business what I spend my money on or what units I want. If you can't handle my army that's your problem.

    Some people take this game far more seriously than is healthy.

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    Senior Member RocketRollRebel's Avatar
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    I run two bassies at 1000pts sometimes and I dont get much whining. I run some crazy gun line lists with loads of ap2 weapons and ap3 templates falling on your head and to be honest it doesnt always guarantee victory. If your opponents clever they can figure out a way to take it down. Plus lists like that are pretty much sunk once something gets into CC in its lines.
    40k armies
    Imperial Guard-3,250pts
    Blood Angels-2,000pts
    Daemon Hunters-2,000pts

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    No, it's not really cheese.

    But it is boring.

    At least 75% of my games used to be against gunlining armies, whether Tau, IG, SMurfs, etc. It just gets incredibly boring after a while, especially if you play a close combat or close ranged army.

    40k is first and foremost about fun, not winning.

    Now, I know the IG is weak in hand to hand, but still. Try something different every now and then, or people will stop or not like playing with you.

    Now, don't get me wrong, Basilisks are very, very good, but they're very weak and almost every army has the ability to deepstrike something or out of LOS bombarding, or whatever. And each Basi that you take is one less Leman Russ, or whatever.
    "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away." Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

  6. #5
    Librarian from Hell Andusciassus's Avatar
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    746 (x8)

    Oh no!
    Not the "what's cheese?" "Nothing" "everything" debate...
    Just kidding, it's just that it's quite a common thread on forums.

    Some people will say like Liffrea -if it's legal it's legal. Which I must say is quite a nonsense answer as the question was not "what is legal?" but "what is considered cheesy?"

    The thing with cheese is that it is just as much in the eye of the beholder as beauty is. I'm not a great fan of the expression, but I'm not a deadhard defender of cheesy lists either.

    First, sure it's nothing illegal about a cheesy list, it might however be considered boring as Atma pointed out.

    In my book cheese is when you build an army of the best unitconfigurations available.
    When every detail of the army has been sharpened to the extreme and it has little or none ather flare to it but effectiveness.
    Oh, look we can have 5 men tacsquads with plasmaguns and lascannons... then I'll take six of them. Oh, and we have the Landspeeder with assaultcannon...better fill my FA-slots with those.
    And Powerfists on all Champs/vet Sarges...

    I am not saying that it is wrong, as long as you are two players who share the same view on the game you can have a great game or many great games. God knows I've had, some of my best games have been really tailored sharpened to the edge cheesefiests.
    But if you bring the "awesomest" list you can imagine to a game against someone who is either new to the game or just prefer a more narrative list-sort then it'll be quite boring.
    Not that a cheesy list is unbeatable, but in it's "perfectness" it becomes a bit automatic and static (oh, yes it can be static in a very mobile way)...

    I however don't like when it's screamed at a list in the armylist section. "Oh, your list is soooo cheesy" if anyone made an effective list, then fine. If it's a strong, good and legal list -perfect. If the goal for teh game is other than perfection, well then it's obviously somethign different. Hence the, often forgotten, recommendation to mark the lists "friendly" and/or "tournament"...

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    Senior Member Plasma Catcher's Avatar
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    There really is no such thing as cheese. However, there is a common misconception that a very powerful army is... well cheesey.

    A cheesey army, in escence, is one that has been put together by a veteran player who includes his armies strong units and neglects the armies weak units. Makes sense to me.

    Well any way, my best shot at a 1000pt IG cheese list would be 3x Russes, 2x melta grenadier squads with chimera transports and deep striking melta HQ and demo charge support squad.

    Powerful or cheesey. What ever you call it, its a good list.
    It's worth a krak!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Formerly BrotherAzriel Horus Lupercal's Avatar
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    I hate the cries of "cheese" and "power game", these in my opinion are both terms used by sore losers, theres nothing wrong with useing your list to its potential.
    PROUD TO BE IN THE BRITISH ARMY.
    ~~ Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death~~

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    Senior Member Liffrea's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Andusciassus
    Some people will say like Liffrea -if it's legal it's legal. Which I must say is quite a nonsense answer as the question was not "what is legal?" but "what is considered cheesy?"
    It's a perfectly valid answer, power lists are often considered "cheese" and "cheese" is often used by people moaning about a legal army set up they don't like/can't handle.

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    Senior Member cadian315's Avatar
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    Exploiting some of the possibilities of the Last Chancers makes me think others might have a reason to call unfair - but then again, given some of the wretched editing and flaws of the codex, it can be forgiven (such as Creed not being an Officer somehow)

  11. #10
    Librarian from Hell Andusciassus's Avatar
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    746 (x8)

    @Liffrea:
    What I meant was that sure a powergaming (by some people reffered to as a cheesy list)list is legal. I assume all armylists are legal, since if they were not they wouldn't be armylists in the first place. They'd be somet non-game worty piece of paper with units and equipment.

    So to point out that an army setup is legal is IMHO rather pointless.
    "Cheese" and "cheat" are two very different things.

    I think this really captures the defenition quite well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Liffrea
    "cheese" is often used by people moaning about a legal army set up they don't like
    Then if it feels good to bring a list, powerful and allmighty, to a club and nobody really wants to play against it...well then there's really nothing much to do about it.

    So I think Powergaming lists are better used against one and another. It's way more fun that way.
    I know I love to tailor my lists against my tailoring friend, but it's not quite as fun to do against a player wha'll have no idea my army is that powerful. THen I feel way better trying out some of the other units, maybe build a themed army, a recon force or a heavily mechanised one.

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