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Well ive played many armies in the past and i have decided to start up guard because they look like they offer a unique playing experience, but my problem is that every time i see a guard player they get whooped by the marines, choas, nids ect, they start off strong with numbers and firepower but they get outlasted and overpowered, especially when the opponent gets over to the guard side of the table. Is it like this in most games where a common guard army can be easily overpowered or do the players i see play just suck? what would be some solutions?
Last edited by Diango; March 22nd, 2008 at 21:46.
There are a lot of different ways you can go with this. I think where a lot of people run into problems is when they assume it will only take a single squad to get something done. When your playing guard you almost have to think like the Israeli special forces- anything worth shooting once is worth shooting three times. (Pretty sure where thats from) New players especially seem to make the mistake of only relaying on one unit to get a job done. For instance if your going to take one Lemman Russ, take another. Put simply they are cheap and nasty, but you need two running side by side to draw fire from your line squads. What wins battles for guard is simple. Men. The tanks, aircraft and other shiny things are tools that make the job easier.
If you do your job right you will never be in close combat ever. Between repeat causality test, pinning test and out and out annihilation you should be able to stop all but the most determined force dead in its tracks within about 12 inches of your line. (orks tend to be the best at wading through the hail of gun fire those trukks are mean) If you do get charged then you hopefully have an ace up your sleeve in small game this just might be a sanction psyker or three or a squad of Ogryns, or more likely just a ton of men you can throw into a meat grinder bogging everything down killing the enemy through shear attrition (works great on Dark Eldar Archons. HA lets see your shadow field save this!) Then there is the ever popular squad of conscripts with a commissar. Give him a power fist and watch space marine captains, hive tyrant s, and well every thing fall to them.... eventually.
To be fair, the army does have a bit of a learning curve, not as steep as Dark Eldars, but it can take a while to really figure out what the hell works. Once you get figure everything out though it becomes a matter of how many turns you want your opponent to last before they are completely annihilated.
Rheagar fought nobly
Rheagar fought valiantly
Rheagar fought honorably
And Rheagar died.
Well that makes sense, thanks for the advice.
Hey guys, 1st up, greenbeard, the SAS say shoot it thrice also, stemming from the usage of three shot burst on most of their weapons, but anyway.
As previously said, guard only really work by taking and utilizing redundancies. When considering a list, think about how many men or weapons you would need to get a job done, and then double it. This is generally the principle I work around. Same applies in the field, if you think a squad can handle a job, try and send two regardless, this allows for mistakes, and for the fact that the guards bs means you are only working on 50/50 odds regardless.
Experience really is key here to be honest. Personally I use differant tactics to greenbeard, and am not opposed to a bit of combat on occasion, though only as a last resort. I rely on close range firepower to do the job. With the rapid fire rule, numbers effectively count twice within 12 inches, but it does have it's risk. Best to develop your own strategy to suite your style.
Guard certainly aren't the easiest army to play, but then that's why we love them. Playing the underdog is always fun, especially when you win when the enemy doesn't expect it....
Inquistion force WIP. Pics on posts 17 and 23.
Guard is a finesse army. They are the type of army that will not win every battle, but can win most.
Honestly, I found myself winning with my army simply based on out-generaling my opponent. Yes, I had a pretty decent list, but on any other day, most marines would thump me.
Overall, as others have said, the Guard are an army that you just love to play because they are so versatile. I love the guard because they are the underdog - it forces me to think more creatively.
How difficult is it to field a Space Wolves army that simply rushes in and tears it up? I'm sure it has it's pitfalls as well, but frankly, a Guard army isn't like most where you can run in a slaughter in CC - commissar with powerifst or not.
So, you really need to accept a few things about guard:
1. Lots of models to build and paint.
2. Lots of variety in strategy and application of force.
3. Lots of weaknesses.
4. Lots of fun to play - even when you lose.
If you can accept about a 50/50 ratio of wins to losses, then play the guard. If it's all about winning, think about another army.
I think guard are just starting to show their age. The recent books and the looming reality of a new 40k edition are wearing on a codex that's 5 years old or so.
The thing I see affecting guard is that newer armies are cheaper. Orks now only being 6 pts a pop will be an issue for guard. Chaos has also seen price drops for a lot of things. Guard will still be a good list for awhile, but much like Daemon hunters, you may start seeing only a select number of lists that are heavily min/maxed remain competitive.
Guard aren't underpowered. When I play, I kill the close combat units of the enemy in turn 1 with basalisks and everything else I have. If they survive, I have deepstriking stuff to hit them with before they reach my line. I haven't been in close combat at all this year bar my HQ squad and conscripts. Once close combat units are taken care off, expect to win big. Especially when you are loaded with plasma and heavy weapons and veterans equiped with cameleoline on a board with plenty of cover. Tau never beat me. They just cant shift me out of my dug in position no matter how good their weapons are. (3+ cover save ) Guard are the best ranged army in the game even with the aging codex. They just LOOK bad because of the terrible generals who play them. A competent guard general should be able to deal with any battlefield threat. So, no! The Imperial Guard aren't underpowered? (to me anyway)
Guard aren't underpowered, they just take some time and experience to play well. They definatly have a learning curve!
One benefit and problem with Guard is that there are sooooo many options. Some are very beneficial and some are only good for fluff reasons. For competative advice here are a three things to recommend the new Guard Player:
1> Don't over do Doctrines and upgrades. You can take a six point guardsman and make him 10 points pretty fast, which means you have a lot less troops on the table. Take things like Close Order Drill, Veterans, Iron Discipline and Drop Troops as they are free or almost free. You can take things like Grenadiers or Rough Riders if you like a different looking force. Be VERY carefull about anything that adds 10 - 20 points per squad. Keep your tanks fairly cheap, Extra Armour, Stubbers and Smoke are all I take, leave the rest in the Armoury. Same goes for Characters, don't kit them out with a bunch of stuff. A 100 point IG HSO will get pummeled by a 100pt Marine leader every time.
The less you spend on Doctrines and upgrades the more points you have for guns!8Y
2> IG are about shooting: We win by our plethora of Heavy weapons, Special weapons and Tanks. You can make a fluffy CC Guard army just don't expect it to win much. You CAN take a counter charge squad like Rough Riders, but the bulk of your army should be guns and troops or tanks that shoot them. Always Maximize your Heavy and Special weapons choices for your squads. Eg: Don't just give the troop squad a Heavy Bolter, make sure you add the Plasma Gun or Grenade Launcher.
3> Learn Tactics and Know they enemy. There are some tactics like the Break and Shoot that are extremely helpfull to a Guard player, so look them up and practice them. It takes time to know what your enemy's stregths and weekness are, but learn them. Targeting priority is VERY important for IG as we are fairly static, so think about and learn what to shoot first.
Hope this helps a bit.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
Plus, a lot of the time circumstances will determine an army's success on the field. Any army can look underpowered if it plays against an army that exploits it's weaknesses. For example, a perfectly built gunline will have success against any army that allows the gunline to sit and shoot. However, say that gunline is playing against a Necron army that is using a monolith or two to deepstrike a bunch of squads into the middle of the line without fear of losing anything to a bad scatter. Needless to say, the gunline becomes much less effective, and to a player just witnessing this, it wouldn't be difficult to assume that the IG is underpowered. But then say that necron list plays against a mechanized Eldar list that doesn't have a particular spot where deepstriking a monolith would cause any significant damage, then the necron list starts to look underpowered.
Maybe I'm delusional, but I don't think that out of all the choices one has when selecting what they want to use in 40K, there is one choice that is so overpowered as to be not fair when applied in a sportsmanlike fashion. On the other hand, I also don't think there is a choice that is so underpowered as to be useless.
I think you need to spend more time on your floor.
2500 Black Templars