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Black Templars...good/bad?

686 views 9 replies 4 participants last post by  orky/necron 
#1 ·
I'm look at starting a Black Templar force. I would like any feedback form players who use them or have faced them more than once.
I know the codex pros and cons, but what are they like to actually use this force.
Any feedback before I start buying marines would be awesome.

Thanx
 
#2 ·
I own about 5000 pts of BTs (+/-), and I like them. On the surface, they can seem a bit simple to play (i.e. get into combat and stay there), but the reality is something altogether different.

For a "CC army", they really aren't that good at it. Sure, with the vows, they can be made to take anything, but I find that the SWs and chaos can do a better job at fighting "in-your-face" than the BTs can, simply because we don't have enough special weapons in each squad to really do the damage we have to do before and during CC. So we have to think about how to layout an army to cover all the bases and still do well. It makes list building a bit more fun.

Our nice advantages are disadvantages at the same time (i.e. fearless in CC, large mixed armor squads, RZ tests/moves), so overall I really like the balance of the BTs. The bad things of not having infantry based long range firepower is fluffy (at least in the new codex anyway), so it almost forces you to consider vehicles in the list if you need that range.

I've been playing them for about 4 years now, and I would say that the new codex makes them a bit more fun to play, although not nearly as powerful as they used to be.

Just my two cents.
 
#3 ·
I've been playing them for about 4 years now, and I would say that the new codex makes them a bit more fun to play, although not nearly as powerful as they used to be.
I was looking a big foot force with a couple of tanks and a group of bikes @ around 1500-1700 points.

With your experience are they descent on foot with the righteous zeal move, or are they led around by the nose chasing a ever retreating and firing squad? That is my fear of using them.

Is a rhino/razorback rush worth it?

What have you tried with your massive 5000 points?

Thanx
 
#6 ·
I love to DP my BTs... but there is a problem.

You see, the EC can't be held in reserve before the game to allow him to catch a ride in a DP. You can find the whole argument over on BolterandChainsword.com, but to summarize, he can't ride in a DP as of now.

With a DPing BT force, I try to cut the cost of my units to alleviate the problems of the single special weapon (i.e. I run 7 initiates and 3 neophytes). This costs me 193 points with 7 initiates w/bolters, 1 PF & 1 PG, and 3 neophytes w/BP/CCW in a DP. I usually take at least 4 if I'm trying to DP, and let the EC walk =). The initial drop isn't as damaging as it is with regular marines w/2 special weapons, but it still brings fear into my enemies. Plus, you can shave off even more points if you need to by using more neophytes. The neophytes add a bit of CC punch, while the bolter marines open a can up on infantry. The PF prevents being stuck against a wraithlord or something. Basically, you fall, fire, and get shot back, getting sucked into combat with your RZ move.

And as for the RZ move, we aren't Khorne. We just don't run after vehicles. In every tournament I played, the RZ was a necessary check after 1+ casualty that allowed you to move up to the distance rolled on the d6 towards the nearest visible because of it being just like a massacre move (and no one I've played makes you move the full distance on the massacre move). So if the nearest is a rhino in a place you don't want to go, then you just move 0". The penalty of taking a morale check after every casualty counters the possible advantage of RZing (hence the necessity of a well-protected Marshal in a BT list).

I have yet to play a straight mech BT list. I get a bad feeling from rhinos simply because I play tau too, and I have never had an opponent's rhino make it past turn two; although, sometimes by turn two their job was done anyway, so it didn't matter. Rhinos aren't bad, but I'm more of a heavy tank guy, so I'm building my 3rd LRC as we speak (well, not now, but when I'm done typing). My friends don't play apoc, but we do play no-point, full FOC battles, so I don't get to play all my models very often. And one friend has a full FOC of IG anyway, so I don't get to do much very often. I have a full FOC of tau, too, but it isn't fun to play against yourself. But in any case, it's about 4500 points +/-, and I might try to run a full FOC list like:

Marshal w/command in DP
Chaplain w/command in DP
EC (in LRC)

5 Termies w/2 AC in DP
5 Termies w/2 AC in DP
5 Termies w/2 AC in DP

10 Bolter Marines in DP (PG/PF)
10 Bolter Marines in DP (PG/PF)
10 Bolter Marines in DP (PG/PF)
14 CC Marines in LRC (MG/PF)
15 CC Marines in LRC (MG/PF)
15 CC Marines in LRC (MG/PF)

10 Jump Marines (2 PP/2 Shields/PF)
10 Jump Marines (2 PP/2 Shields/PF)
10 Jump Marines (2 Flamers/PW)

Vindi
3 Las Pred
3 Las Pred
 
#8 ·
I love to DP my BTs... but there is a problem.

You see, the EC can't be held in reserve before the game to allow him to catch a ride in a DP. You can find the whole argument over on BolterandChainsword.com, but to summarize, he can't ride in a DP as of now.
So indp characters can't drop with squads in a drop pod? really? wow that really changes my mind about a drop pod force. looks like i 'll continue to look at footsloggers or razorbacks & rhinos.
 
#7 ·
Just to come in from the "Played Against Them" team: I hate them. My friend has about 3k+ of BT and knows how to use them, unfortunately. They are hard to beat if used properly.

I play SW, but if I were starting out afresh I would certainly be considering BTs. A very stylish army to look at, as well as their ability on-table IMHO.

E.
 
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