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I've been playing apocalypse quite often due to my store's regular mega-battle events, and I've found myself getting overwhelmed by the Endless swarm that is the Tyranid mob.
The most infamous user of the swarm at my store runs a combination swarm/carnifex army, and hides his precious zoanthropes behind said monstrous maxed out creatures.
I try to shoot the big ones, but I unfortunately don't have enough lascannons to deal with the carnifex shield before it hits the line(apparently 12 don't cut it.)Spending all my dakka on the carnifexes also seems to be a waste of time, seeing as I've yet to inflict more wounds than I have fingers with missiles, autocannon and heavy bolter fire. Should I kill off a carnifex, he's usually knocking on the front door, and his synapse have moved close enough together that the loss of a Zoanthrope or two is not a major loss. His two Hive Tyrants further allow him to shrug off the loss of his Zoanthropes.
Furthermore, my men have a tendency of running out of ammo when shooting at the swarm itself, sort of making my line squads and fire support squads useless.
The staggered formation doesn't seem to really work either, seeing as the entire swarm hits my line in one go.
If I'm lucky enough to manage to get a deployment zone that gives me the length of the table, it only works out so well, as he makes deadly use of terrain and strategic redeployment.
I'd like to beat him without having to alter my list, which is one of those balanced-all-comers lists. Lots of line squads, fire support squads and a couple of basilisks, but other than those two vehicles just all men. In truth, I think I actually outnumber him since I take my men as cheap as possible.
The best I've been able to do is grind the swarm down in close combat to a draw, until I fully kill a brood and it comes back. Carnifexes and hive tyrants just rampage about, eating my officers with powerfists.
The Basilisk is the only thing I can really rely on to kill alot of gaunts, due to the sheer number of them and the need to not worry about those sixes.
Perhaps I'm just having bad luck, but what are all of your opinions on how to deal with the endless swarm/ carnifex swarm? Should I just abandon the all-comers list I love so much in favor of an objective grabbing IG? Take as many hellhounds as I can afford to buy? Essentially tailor my list? I'd prefer not to, but I won't play him again with my IG until I can muster up a plan, or a new list, or both.
1. Concentrate fire, sum up the enemy. What is going to hurt you the most? Who is going to get to you first? Work out where you enemy is coming from and what is your first priority. I generally split my fire to the two flanks and concentrate my fire at a unit at a time. You don't want a couple of models hitting your unit, as if nothing else it will stop you shooting and next turn more will come. Take out the closest unit. Then the next.
This applies to both infantry and heavy weapon squads... concentrate your lascannons on one beast at a time, take him out... 12 Lascannons should definately take out one Carnifex per turn.
2. Use more mobile units to slow them down. Send up hellhounds and chimeras to get in there way, make them run around buildings to avoid the flames or use the chimeras to block streets so they have to move through cover. Doing this will help break their line and will mean that unit after unit come to you, giving you time to take out unit after unit (hope this makes sense)
3. Deploy your units with more than a 6" gap (where possible), there is nothing worse than a unit of genesteallers destroying a unit and bouncing into another... there is nothing better than a unit of genestealers killing a unit and sitting out in the open, ready to be slaughtered.
Keep with your all comers list, but tweak it with what works... Good luck
Much must be risked in war.
Blood Angel Stormraven Conversion Work In Progress.
I recommend you try Split Deployment. (Split deployment - The Art of Firepower)
You may want to tinker your army a bit to get the most out of it though. More Basilisks would be good (an even number preferably) as well as lots of long ranged weaponry in dedicated squads (heavy weapon support squads). Then all you need to do is hope terrain is scarce and you win!
By the way, how do you run out of Ammunition? Is it some special Apocalypse rule? Lasguns never run out of ammo anyway, compared to Bolters, Plasmaguns, and Autoguns at least.
Last edited by kroxigor01; April 8th, 2008 at 13:24.
Note that the "Bodies over Bullets" rule (the one that negates fire if you role too many sixes) is effective on a per unit basis, i.e. for the shooting to be neutralized each squad would have to roll a large number of sixes (which is not terribly likely even with a 3 HB support squad).
Also, while I realize that you do not want to change your list or anything, you might want to consider a Baneblade/ Hellhamer if you have access to one. I have not yet used one myself (I have so far used my Tau in Apocalypse games), they have been viscous in the battles I have seen. Depending on the point level (more specifically the table size) the Hellhamer would likely be even more effective since it can wound every model he has (S10, AP 1) uses the 7" template and denies cover saves. It also has a large number of secondary weapons (HB & Lascannons) as well as a Demoliosher cannon. The superheavy damage rules also means it is fairly survivable even if he has several VC.
For apocalypse, you could always try a few force weapons - thise elite inquisitorial allies look promising.
I can't remember the init of a caarnifex, but a familiar pushes up your init to 5, and gives you extra bodies in the unit for peanuts (oh go on then get 3), warriors increase your WS to 5, and acolytes in terminator armour give your inquisitor a 2+ save which if you fail you still don't take a wound (get 2, they are however armed with laspistol and ccw due to equipment (not wargear) restrictions.)
Fun to model too and, as a plus they're something to use your kaskrin flamers with.
Have you tried minefields and barbed wire ? (Split them both into inch wire strips - difficult and dangerous. Har har har)
And is it ambush / or a disruptor field? to start knocking back that redeployment?
Adeptus Mechanicus Marines: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1655065
My suggestion is to take a few heavys. I scratch built a titan for just that. Mega bolter for the big guys and the super flame thrower for the swarms. You cant go wrong with that. Also try proxying a baneblade and test is out. That thing can take alot of punishment and still drop a 10'' template along with asorted secondary weapons, three twin linked heavy bolters for the win! Heavy's are alot of fun and can really turn the tide.
And if you cant make or take any I say put the heavy weapon teams in scenery back from no mans land and hope for two or three turns before they reach the front line. Also scheduled bombardment for the hordes and a vortex for the 'fexs might be a good idea.
I'd try a few ratling squad to force your opponent to make armor save on his monstrous. He's gotta roll a 1 eventually. You might also want to try hardened vets with 3 plasmas in a chimera to plow throught gaunt's and stealer adavancing 12" at a time to ensure he'll only it you on a roll of 6. If you do this right, I think you might be able to reach the zoanthrope from the side and kill it.
As for lascannons, try using schaeffer and 20 last chancers with 10 lascannons. They have a better BS than regular guardsmen so it makes it a little more worthwhile.
I never played apocalypse before, but i love putting sharp shooters on my heavy weapon squads (autocannons/lascannons) If its legal then you might wana try. You would normally only hit with about 6 of your 12 lascannons, but with sharpshooters you will hit with about 9. that would be about 120 points at the most and would probably make points back. If 9 lascannon shots does not kill then stop playing games that include dice roling, curse your luck, and never gamble. ;Y
"Thank him who puts me loath to this revenge on you who wrong me not for him who wrongd"
Firing 12 lascannons with sharpshooters I think equals more like 7 hits (statistically,) not 9, but still - that is 6 more shots over the length of the game!