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So it turns out whatever new IG army I make will be doing a lot of city crawling. And it also turns out it will be doing so against the Tyrannids more often than not. I have a little over 2 months to assemble this army.
So with these in mind I am going to make my new 750pt force fitted for city fight. (which kind of stinks because I was looking forward to finally going with my Prussian themed army idea: rough riders with hussar style feathered backs and leopard skins, mustached men forming bayonet lines, and very regal looking white armored royal gilded storm trooper guard... ... but such a force probably does not fit the city fight scenario very well.) But I have no experience with cities of death city fightin' rules and honestly I am scared half to death.
I need to devise a way to deal with hth and the inevitable manhole pouring out tons of gaunts and genestealers and other nasties. I was thinking that since my range will most likely be limited to a large extent here in the city that perhaps loading some veterans up with shotguns and 3 flamers and giving the sarge a power-fist wouldn't be a bad idea. Having them troll up through buildings and the like. Are rough riders a legitimate solution?
I also considered maybe taking a hellhound or two to fry me up some buggies in cover or attempting to use cover. Maybe a demolisher could really come into its own in city fighting? Are sentinels worth a darn in cityfight? They seem like they would have a easier time maneuvering and running, uhm... walking... through the streets. Perhaps a heavy flamer or a lascannon to pop at the inevitable hive tyrant or something? Or maybe just stick with my multilaser? (Hey, I like lots of shots and it seems to take down more marines than my lascannons ever did just because of the multiple hits.) Maybe take a heavy flamer chimera? I know that diggum likes this tactic . It does seem like it would be useful in a city fight scenario especially against bugs. Or maybe the double heavy bolter chimera with the third from the men inside.
Another thought I had was to take cameoline, light infantry, or maybe both(?) to allow me to advance and move about quicker than I otherwise would or receive some massive cover saves . But I suppose I will be less concerned about cover saves than hth saves with 'nids and being able to infiltrate probably is not all that useful against an army that is so CC based. Close Order Drill does not seem too useful in a city fight (though it would have fit my awesome theme idea perfectly... grr). I have a feeling that multiple units of Veterans could be very useful as well. Xeno fighters is too cheesy for my tastes here and hardened fighters is way too expensive and I doubt it would honestly help me out all that much. (id rather pay 5 more points for all my units and give them 3+ cover saves and an extra dice to run through difficult terrain!) Drop troops is probably a no go (which sucks for my sentinels) but perhaps light infantry makes up for that?
I am very tempted to take my beloved rough riders still. They seem like they could provide a wealth of opportunities to strike hard without being ripped up a bit by enemy fire like they usually are due to being able to take advantage of buildings and alley ways and the like for cover. Can a rough rider charge a unit that is inside a building? I considered equipping half my rough riders in each unit with a CCW and a laspitol and the other half with lances to give them some sort of ability to aid my other units to a larger extent more than just once. I also always equip the sarge with a power-sword.
Are heavy weapons in my line units worth taking? How about as heavy weapons teams? The ranges and lines of site being so messed up seem like they would be rendered half as useful. Though establishing some cover in the streets or on a rooftop might be a good idea.
Well I have rambled enough. Any advise or answers you can provide would be nice (or if you can provide a thematic/tactical solution to salvagin my prussian/royal monarchy theme )
Imperial Guard against Tyranids in cityfight sounds terrifying, haha. Its them playing their strength to you playing yours. Hellhounds and Catachan-pattern Sentinels sound appropriate - robs practically everything of their saves, and kills those genestealers dead (I hate and fear Genestealers more than, well, anything haha) It is in situations like this, furthermore, that I wish we still had Griffons. Those heavy mortars would be delicious in these circumstances.
I don't know how much you want to prioritize hand to hand - you probably won't be assaulting too much. Rapid firing things to death will be key - but genestealers will just annihiliate anything you throw at them. Mortars will be key, too, I anticipate. You won't be able to keep them off of you for any period of time, so lots of cheap, expendable infantry squads to slow those genestealers down with their lives. I am curious to hear what you do and how it goes, as I anticipate fighting tyranids in cityfights soon enough.
LET THEM BURN, and what i mean by that is give each basic squad a flamethrower. I can't tell you how much my bug loving friend hates me when his little buddies burn. Switch the RR's for a hellhound and show them whats up.
Close order drill in the best your gonna get in a bayonet line, but in city fight it kinda sux.
Roughriders dont really fit a big role in the city because terrian works against them.
Stormtroopers are my favorite unit, and dont be afraid of giving them some "fire" power also
I agree with Cadian315 with the mortars, but keep these with command squads unless your brave enough spending points on a team
I wouldnt expect your mate to take a tyrrant in 750, cause if your worried about the genestealers, then you should be even more worried about the broodlord. He seems like a much more viable option for your opponent. In case of that give your squads or take teams of missile launchers. Each squad can now multi-task depending on the situation and he wont scream at you for building a list.
PS. ML's are my favorite HW for under 1k point games 8X
Missile launchers I don't think would be that great, I would go with heavy bolters. You're not going to run into anything insanely armoured, and heavy bolters pump out a lot of shots.
I'm biased against missile launchers I guess, it seems weaker then a lascannon, less versatile then a heavy bolter. I take them over autocannons. Then again, I roll nothing with missiles, ever.
One pencil stab isn't dangerous, 20 000 pencil stabs are. Although the one pencil that hits you in the eye...
Yes, its true the heavy bolter gets more shots, but its over kill against gaunts. I prefer frag because its jsut right. Same for the krak, its just right to bust creatures in a 750pt game
Flames are a must as many heavy flamers as you can. You dont have a huge amount of points though so a single hellhound may have to do or perhaps a sentienl aswell.
I have found that the multilas comes into its own in dense save terrain. Its crappy AP isn't a worry as they get a cover save anyway, high numbers of shots are thus good. Heavy bolters are also good to have around.
Try a chimera with multilas and heavy flamer on hull and put vets with flamers inside. Dont forget that if you are dropped from the chimera you can do so rightinto terrain and a building so plasma can still work wonders.
Indirect is also your friend. mortars are great so a normal mortar command is a must and perhaps a squads worth of the blighters.
As for doctrines light infantry sounds good. It's what I use in my cityfight guard, they also use camo but against nids that isn't needed as badly. I say go fro some iron discipline and light infantry on select squads.
As for an army list:
JO w/iron discipline and HI
squad has mortar
mortar support squad
5 man squad w/ three flamers
3 flamers JO with powersword and ID, light infantry
5x grenadiers w/ 2xplas
chimera w/ multilas and heavy flamer smokes extra armour heavy stubber
Thatd leave you with 14 points as far as I can make out. It gives a nice range. Basically you can clear the open ground with the chimera and Hellhound. The chimera can drop the grens off ina building with a big nasty to give soem plasma death (remember the 2" can be in the terrain). The two squads form a main defence with the mortars and main command behind them. The vets and platoon command move up inbuildings to counter any threats there.
Just a few thoughts. The 750 limit is difficult as you kinda need grens so you can have enough other nice stuff. The above is just an example of what I might take!
Hope that helps
I think I like the idea of mortars squads. Especially since I will have to deal with a line of sight headache.
Is it plausible to go the all light infantry route? I am rather used to using zero tanks by now and perhaps that can translate to some kind of advantage in a city fight? Not sure. Infiltrating everyone is probably not a grand idea.
Just out of curiosity again: can rough riders charge a unit that is inside a building?
I am going to come up with a list tonight and post it here. I expect I will include a Hellhound (with hull-mounted flamer or bolter?) and try to include a mortar weapons team. I think I might say no to the stormies in favor of veterans with shotguns whose range I suspect will not piss me off as much in a city fight and will allow me some mobility.
...And hopefully I can come up with another nicely integrated strategy/troop choice/doctorines/modeling theme for it all that I like as much as my first idea
Last edited by Thorsmitersaw; April 21st, 2008 at 22:31.
The broodlord is slower, and more expensive (he needs to take a Genestealer retinue).
But basically, Hellhounds and lots and lots of shots.
Dont get too excited about non-hellhound mounted flamers, even on sentinels. Nids will rip apart anything that gets close enough to use a normal flamery thingy, but being able to "lob" the inferno cannon shot is sweet.
The name refers to facial hair, not playing style.Originally Posted by A news vendor's stand, London, June 1940
I wouldn't rely on taking too many mortars, however - they are still a very random weapon, and as such you could lose the game without actually achieving much at all if you are unlucky with your scatter rolls.
Anything can charge anything in buildings just like in normal cover. It is exactly the same. So yeah, your roughriders get to smash things in buildings as well as out in the open. Just remember though, the best they can get is to attack at the same time if they have frag grendades.
As for all infantry - can be highly effective. Just remember this, however - it takes a cities of death strategem for each seperate squad that you want to infiltrate, by memory, so infiltration is often not actually a good idea anyway.
Veterans with shotguns can be a good option - I take a 10 man vet squad sometimes, all shotguns, with a flamer, 2 meltaguns and a powerfist. And frag grenades - this last thing is often overlooked, but I suggest taking it, you never know when an assault can be a good thing to do.
Drop troops can be good - remember that you only lose the unit/models if you land on another unit or IMPASSIBLE terrain. Most terrain in cities of death is only difficult or dangerous, and as such is safe to land in. Well, not so much for the dangerous, but still.
Oh, and the hellhound cannot take a hull heavy flamer - it can only take a heavy bolter.
I disagree about not taking standard heavy flamers, I often take sentinels with heavy flamers as they are very cheap, making for good exploding stalling units. Keep them open topped so they have a 1/3 chance of exploding for EVERY penetrating hit they suffer, I often inflict nice damage this way Also, drop trooping them in can be a fantastic method of deployment, especially as they count as scoring units - drop them in the opponent's deployment zone, and he suddenly has to decide wether to advance or retreat! Not a good thing for 'Nids to have to choose.
I like to also take chimeras with heavy flamers in cities of death. I just like the automatic hit thing. Run one of these in conjunction with catachan pattern sentinels and you wont have to fear any broodlord retinue either - the chimera deploys in the centre of your zone, with two sentinels near the edges. No matter where the genestealers infiltrate, they will have to deal with a chimera AND a sentinel which will be moving at top speed towards them - which to charge? Which to assault? Either way they are countered, as the other is going to fry 'em. No broodlord has ever reached my line troops.
As far as flamers go, however, I wouldn't really bother with many amongst your standard grunts. A canny oponent will be able to assault you far ealier than you could possibly use them, 9 times out of 10 anyways. Although, if you DO take the sewer rats strategem, an officer with 4 flamers makes a fun sacrificial unit!
Anyways, I'd better get back to work - I'll post more as I think of it if I get the time.
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.