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For the first time ever my Grey Knights came up against some Chaos Daemons (I did not know beforehand). I think they were some kind of flesh hound of Khorne (note, not new Daemons Codex, just a regular Chaos army with some Daemon hounds).
Anyway, Daemons I thought, there must be some special advantage I have against them.
I look through the Codex, and having been told they do not take instability tests, there were no inbuilt advantages to Daemonhunters fighting Daemons.
It just confirmed to me that Daemonhunters are nothing of the sort (not without paying for special wargear, and how daft is that - surely they should have some inbuilt advantage?).
And what was worse, with Daemonic Infestation they gained the sustained attack rule. So when I finally killed them (there were about 15 of them) and having seen them kill 3 of my Terminators due to an overwhelming number of attacks, they came back again. Talk about sticking the knife in and giving it a twist.
Have I missed something, or is it that in reality we are Daemonhunters in name only?
Sustained attack only works for nurglings... Psycannon, psycannon, psycannon! Incinerators, Incinerators, Incinerators, Incinerators!
Grimoire of True Names and Sacred Incense!!!
Sanctuary psychic power!
Inquisitor with two Mystics!
Anyway, I say the opposite! This is an army that we can finally truly shine against!
Hang on, just to clarify I was not playing a new Daemons army, just a regular Chaos army with Daemonic beasts.
My point is that as I did not know I would be facing them, I wasn't tooled up to deal with them. Sanctuary, Grimoire and Incinerators are not normally found on a Grey Knights list, whilst sacred incense is only useful for characters.
My point being that in turn up and play, or tournaments, Grey Knights will be at no advantage against Daemons as loading up against them with wargear and psychic powers would make us much less useful against other armies as we wouldn't use the special stuff.
Sure, we can all build a list to have a good go at beating a specific foe, and in this case I agree that Inquisitors with Sanctuary, heavy bolter warriers and mystics would be great, but they would be weak against anyone else.
So, I'm yet to be convinced that in anything but 'ah, I'm playing your Daemon army tonight' we are Daemonhunters in name only.
Unfortunatly, the current rules for Grey Knights were made in accordance to the old rules for daemons. Daemons in both the Chaos Marine codex and the new Daemon codex have been changed. I believe that the difficult terrain check for daemons to assault Grey Knights is still applicable, but the instability check penalty no longer has any point, thus taking away one of the things that made Grey Knight effective when fighting all warp-spawned entities.
Edit: If I were you, I would check with any chaos players you face to see if they would be ok with ignoring the Daemon infestation rule, since it was made to give daemons a chance against Grey Knight abilities which no longer work (without making the Grey Knights cost more). If they are reasonable people who are playing more for fun instead of just to win, I don't believe this wouldnt be too much to ask.
When Daemonhunters eventually get updated, the Grey Knights will probably regain their daemon-killing powers that work with the new Daemon rules.
Last edited by Zarak; May 11th, 2008 at 04:02.
Wait, with the actual Daemons, the Sutained Attack rules, simply don't work, except on Nurglings (don't tell me that you fear nurglings!)
The rules it's about "Daemon packs"...and i see no "Daemon Packs" in the new Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons Codex...so...no sustained attack!
Yeah I'm sorry about that post. I may have been a little tipsy. But what I meant was essentially we now have an enemy that allows us to field alot of our fun war gear. Granted the ones that effect leadership are useless but it still makes alot of war gear worth taking.
I do understand what you mean about a tournament setting as well and I have just been thinking of friendly games where I usually don't write opponent specific lists (as its kinda lame and unsporting), but to bash some daemons over the head with our fun DH toys is too hard to resist! Plus it makes for a fun themed game and who doesn't want to watch a decked out Grandmaster throw down with a Blood Thirster in close combat?!?!? (Daemon Hammer FTW!)
But I am well aware that DH suffer against just about every non marine army I'm just excited about an army we excel against!
Hmm, it seems this thread was put forth to vent some anger, no problem at all, but lets try and put this thread to some better use shall we?
What exactly do we now HAVE that is good against the new codex?
What tactics and units are good against new daemons?
Anything else helpful against new daemons?
So we have desided that Psycannons are still good have we?
Beyond that, I havent looked yet at the new codex so I am not much of a help at this point.
What do you guys think? Sorry if I am hijacking the thread! Not my intention, just to put it to good use instead of creating a new 'how do you fight new daemons' thread.
Mystic henchmen can now prove to be a real pain to daemons. As someone who is thinking about starting a daemon army, yet has two friends who play daemonhunters (one of which got their army from me), mystics are my greatest worry. Of course, having yet to use a daemon army yet, it could just be that they look scarier to me then they actually are. I've never used mystics in my daemonhunter army, so I have yet to see how effective they are, even against the former rules for daemons.
Destroy daemon and santuary are still effective. All those anti-daemon weapons and wargear.
Of course, as mentioned above, all of these require advanced knowledge that you will be fighting daemons, so you can prepare them in the list.
Apart from psycannons, I don't see any passive strengths against daemons.
Last edited by Zarak; May 11th, 2008 at 18:45.
The standard inquisitorial firebase -- with at least one mystic (but two would be even better now! bring on the I-lords!) -- will see a lot more play in my lists. (I regularly used them in the past, and always liked 'em, but I've been experimenting of late. Time to bring back the old reliable....)
I may even take Sanctuary! But without fielding multiple Inquisitors -- and I have little interest in doing that -- it won't be as useful. But I do imagine a trio of Inquisitors working together to create a 9" impenetrable wall....
As for the status of daemons and what special rules should or should not be in play....
I'm of the opinion that a daemon is a daemon is a daemon. And both the CSM codex and Daemons codex have plenty of daemons that should be affected by whatever special rules the DH still have.
Which, admittedly, isn't many.
For fairness, I would say that daemonic infestation should either not be used until the DH get a new FAQ or a new codex (it's just way overpowered otherwise, and clearly unfair, particularly when the codex outright says that the rule was instituted for "game balance"!), or you/we should house-rule a way to bring some balance back. My own suggestion is to remove the Fearless USR from all daemonic units when GKs are on the table. That would probably be enough of a counterbalance, and a reasonable replacement for the loss of daemonic instability, etc.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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