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Its getting harder and harder to play imperial guard as more and more races/codexes and updates are released. Its not that IG units and rule stink, its just that other races simply are tougher, more cost effective and more flexible than standard IG armies. Every day more and more people start having problems with their armies, so in this thread I want experienced players to share some of the strategies they use to stay competative in the game. Be it cheap, cheesy or even annoying, it doesnt matter. As long as it help you win, please feel free to share it, and be specific. Also feel free to exploit every annoying and little dirtytrick up your sleeve. Do not include FW since they arent allowed in tourney setting.
P.S Please dont mention that commisar adds +1 to vox Ld of HSO because he doesnt, it only affects the unit he is with so it doesnt sread through vox.
For example so general strategies:
***Heavy on infanty guard - can bring tremendous amount of firepower to bear, but once the enemy gets his CC specialists into CC the guard player can only rely on numbers to keep him alive, and sooner of later those numbers are reduced to 0. Not suggested for tournaments due to its tremendous vulnerability to CC attackers.
***Heavy on tanks - packing a lot of armor is fun, but the only way you can stay on top of your game is if you stay away from any kind of eldar(including dark eldar) and ork players. Heavy armor is useless against lances while Orks simply have too many high Str assault weapons that they can fire on the move. Not suggested for tournaments due to its tremendous vulnerability to CC attackers and eldar/ork anti-tank guns.
***Balanced force - the most competative by far, work out an infantry to vehicle ratio that works for you and play to the best of your extent. Usualy dont include more than 3 heavy vehicles in the army, otherwise the force becomes too susceptible to antitank
Some specific strategies:
***Heavy weapon teams - both in HQ support and heavy platoons, these can do a better job with a sharpshooters doctrine. Rerolling an extra miss with a lascannon has never hurt anyone, except the opponent. Dont bother putting it on infantry squads as these ** points can be invested into more usefull things than rerolling lasguns. Even though there is that slight chance, its simply not worth it when the game is on the line.
***Vetarans - can be used in two major competative ways. One is minimum unit of 5-6 with 3 plasma guns/melta guns droping in via drop troops. Or a max unit of 10 with 3 plasma guns and a lascannon (NOT MISSILE LAUNCHER) acting as a fire base. Reason for no missile launcher is because if you are shooting at 2+ units or an AV13 vehicle, even with high Str the missile is wasted while at BS4 a lascannon and 3 plasma guns can realy slam a vehicle.
Keep them in cover at a distance, and they will live to receive the medal. Great investment under a tourny setting.
***Conscripts - with Gaunt or an independent commisar, the 30-50 of them can make a good roadblock for the enemy CC specialists, while at the same time being a good meatshield to shoot at. Flamers are optionaly if you have extra points, but heavy weapons and special weapons are useless due to their BS2. Conscripts are very usefull in competative events, and at the same time extremely annoying for the opponents to deal with. Guant makes them fearless, and he is generaly cheaper than a commisar so realy put him into consideration if special chars are allowed.
***Demolisher - although some disagree, this IS the best tank for a tourney setting. Reason being ability to equip it with 4 High Str Ap2 guns. The tank is very expensive but when properly equiped can rain 3 High Str Ap2 guns at 36" and an ordnance Ap2 when the enemy is inside 24". Can deal with anything, armor, MCs and MEQs to equal extent, needs to be deployed defensively and out of the enemy's anti-tank range/LOS. Also, this tank is least effected by the terrain conditions you are forced to play with, unlike the basilisk, hellhound and chimera as well as side armor of standrd russ.
***HSO - this is completely obvious to some, but JO with a honorifica is 5 points less than a HSO so why overpay? The 5 points can be invested into something usefull. And if you take vox, you have yourself an army of Ld9 guard.
***Iron discipline - an experienced player knows that this is the best doctrine guard have for its price, if you have JO with honorifica plus 2 platoon JOs, thats ** points on the 3 upgrades that lets all guard infantry within 12" of them to regroup even if beyond half Str, with no penalty. If you have vox, you have the ultimate unbreakable guard of Ld9 with ability to regroup when below half Str at no penalty.
Any more usefull suggestions are welcome, the point here is to expose as many strategies as possible to help us stay competative in a tourney setting. And if you have success in a tourney, you sure as hell have what it takes to win a normal game.
Last edited by WraithGuardian; May 14th, 2008 at 19:04.
The general advice I woudl give is actually to simply think about your written list. What do you want to do what?
1. Do you have enough antitank?
2. Do you have an excessive amount of one weapon (usually lascannons)?
3. Do you have too much wargear?
4. do you have a spare doctrine slot?
These are simple questions people miss a lot.
One of the main things is weapons, people get confused as to what is good against what. This is mainly because people tend to ignore the cost of a weapon. For example in an infantry army you may have 6 squads with las plas. But think change all fo these to missile and plas and you save 60 points thats a lot of points. a simple tweak and you coudl get a vet squad or another line squad or even a couple of sentinels. For six more points that is a squad of rough riders!
As far as weapons for jobs:
Lascannon: This is antitank it is to kill AV13 and 14 but mainly 14, if you are using it on other things you have wasted bucket loads of points. Never use this on infantry unless there is no armour around at all. If that is a regular occurance then dont use them. 3 per army is plenty usually for a balanced force that cna tak eon all comers.
Autocannon: for transports and 4+ save infantry simple really and under used IMO.
These are the two most missunderstood heavy weapons.
As far as tactics is concerened dont run right up to the enemy because you will die. Now apply some lateral logic and think about suicide squads. Guard + close enemy = dead guard so dont waste points beefing them up to counter that charge. If the squad is going up close then go all out ie. 5 vets with three plamsa and pos a plasma on the sarge. drop in fire off. If you happen to kill everything they will survive if you dont then they will die so dont get a power sword and carapace on the sarge etc etc.
Mixing wepaons is also a common mistake. This isn't just mixing two different special wepaons it is mixing special and heavy wepaons. Firstly if you take 2 or more special wepaons dont take a heavy weapon. (I have to disagree with above when dropped the lascannon is useless, then at least on plams awill die then the enemy fire back whilst your are intheir midst decimating the unit ergo useless lascannon. Or to use the example giving above the squad has different weapons priorities. Teh plasma should be hititng troops not heavy vehicles if you have plamsa then you want a missile because it is hitting similar things. If you want pure anti 2+ a fast plas squad is the answer it will work better and be a whole lot cheaper).
The main offenders are usually the melta and flamer. Look at the range of the weapons they are close range so you need to move so dont get a heavy weapon.
Essentially what I advocate is effeciency and balance. Think of how your list woudl face up against itself.
A good list will go a long way
As for on table prioritise and keep that plan in your head that you made when creating the list ie. this squad is designed to kill X so target X where possible then move on.
A simple way to win is to play newbies this will make you feel good for all of three seocnds till they cry. Winning is thus not easy practice your list against good opponents. I use dto win the first game wiht a lot of lists which helped as I saw what I was weak on losing is thus helpful if you learn from it!
Pretty generic advice mainly aimed at good army building...
Hope that helps
It also affects the Leadership special rule of Officers.,P.S Please dont mention that commisar adds +1 to vox Ld of HSO because he doesnt, it only affects the unit he is with so it doesnt sread through vox.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
While admittedly I'm picking up a Daemon army this summer because of 5th ed., I feel your going a little too far with your opinion.
First, IG are likely getting a new dex within a year, so they won't see on the vine and rot too long. Second, there isn't much that's "broken" with the IG. You can do 3 drop vets with plasma/melta or lascannon spam, but that's about it. In either of those scenarios you have highly fragile units that can easily fail at their intended tasks. The core troops choice is still great, and will continue to be so in 5th. Units blocking other friendly units may be a pain, but I seriously have never played on a board where I couldn't spread myself out to avoid this. The wound allocation rules make screw things up, but we'll have to see what happens.
The only thing I'll concede is that IG are getting too pricy for what they do. Orks, with furious charge, T4, 2 attacks base, option for a gun or CCW+Pistol, Waagh!, and Mob Rule cost the same as an IG. This'll have to change.
But in general, no matter how "broken" you try and make your guard, they're still a broken army of guard. They're going to die just as easily (or be too costly to be worth keeping alive).
The way 5th edition codexes are going it looks like 3pt guardsmen and 1pt conscripts.
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left" Bertrand Russell
We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand.
Another strength of this army, especially in tounaments, is that most armies include some measure of antitank ability. The points spent on those lascannons will be wasted against your el-cheapo individual guardsmen.
Also, escalation is never going to be a problem.
One of the main problems this list does face is manouvreability, but if you take something like drop troops doctrine, thats no longer an issue. You COULD also take a couple of antitank sentinels just to break it up a little, as well.
I do feel, however, that an assault based vet squad can also be very usefull - I run a full 10 man vet squad, with a powerfist, 2 meltaguns, 1 flamer, shotguns for the rest and frag grenades. I took them to a recent tournament, and by far they outperformed the rest of my army. Keep them on the move, as they all have only assault weaponry. They are good at claiming objectives, effective in CC (hidden powerfist), and can take out tanks and other strong targets (meltaguns).
Last battle of the tournament, for example, they claimed a table quater on their own, as well as killing a bunch of immortals, 2 tomb spiders, and 3 heavy destroyers. Mostly because my opponent underestimated them, but still...
Although, in cities of death with an ammo dump... 8X
And I wouldn't bother shooting this thing at MCs, unless you have to - most of them will have a toughness higher than 5, or be immune to instant death, in which case you will do at most 1 wound in damage. And thats a waste of good ordinance. Shoot it at the smaller critters, if you ask me, and save the MCs for your plasmagun vet squads.
Last edited by Cadaver Junkie; May 15th, 2008 at 03:51.
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
I think you are not giving Guard the credit it deserves. Yes, we're horrible in close combat but that's okay--ideal even, if 5th ed prevents consolidating to make a new CC. So our enemies get 1,500 instant-killing, rending attacks while charging halfway across the table...okay, that's one squad down and now we get to rapid-fire. Really, making guard CC-effective would take so many upgrades that 'give up' is an almost ingenious way of handling it.
Lances drop heavy armor down to medium--it's no fun for the treadhead but hardly a disaster. There are some Eldar players who pack 6 or 8 lances in 1500 points but they cripple themselves against all other targets by doing so, and usually they're on easily-shakeable vehicles. Besides, against Eldar the real strength of heavy armor (especially the Demolisher) is its resistance to the floods of scatter lasers and shuriken catapults most Eldar rely on.
I don't think this thread is going to supply any tactics that haven't already been thought of--spam plasma guns, abuse drop troops with overloaded command squads, use only the drop troops, Iron Discipline and Close Order Drill doctrines, have more veterans than ordinary troops, and dear Emperor, don't forget to save those critically important, game-changing five points by using a Junior Officer with an Honorifica Imperialis instead of the useless Heroic Senior Officer! (gasps for breath)
On a more constructive note, I have experimented with a deepstriking squad of 10 Stormtroopers with grenade launchers for objective control/contesting and it has worked very well. The enemy generally ignores it as the GLs aren't threatening; however, it's worth just enough Victory Points to tip a close game in your favor. In a pinch, you can use the GLs to go for the side/rear armor of vehicles (or the front if a Landspeeder Tornado is dispatched to frag them) but doing so tends to create too many casualties for scoring purposes. And if the tournament game doesn't use the deepstrike rules, they can walk almost as easily.
Aren't there some tournament battle reports around? It's worth looking for.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard