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  1. #1
    Senior Member spaar's Avatar
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    Supporting double allies

    On the member created FAQ it is stated that Daemonhunters CAN ally with both Imperial Guard and Witch Hunters in the same army.

    Where are they getting that answer from? Is it simply an interpretation of the wording in the rulebook or is it actually written in the rulebook? Maybe it was in some FAQ from Dire Wolf or something like that?

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  3. #2
    I Expect the Inquisition RecklessFable's Avatar
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    Without the books in front of me I can tell you this:

    Neither Inquisition codex mentions the other, so they are seperate.
    Both Codexes may ally with an Imperial Guard army
    Therfore a Guard player may have bother Ordo Malleus and Ordo Hereticus in the same army (Just watch your FOC slots!)

    For example I think this is actually legal (if not effective):
    HQ: Imperial Guard HQ
    HQ: Malleus Inquisitor
    Troops: 2 IG Infantry Platoons
    Elites: Grey Knight Terminators
    Elites: Callidus Asassin
    Troops: Sisters of battle
    Fast: Grey Knights Teleport Squad
    Heavy: Leman Russ
    Heavy: Malleus Land Raider edit: I was wrong, this isn't available
    Last edited by RecklessFable; June 2nd, 2008 at 23:22. Reason: correction
    RecklessFable's Journey to Mediocrity (Painting an IG army)
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    Senior Member spaar's Avatar
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    I understand that part, but this is regarding Daemonhunters as the Parent Army and wanting to take allies from IG and WH in the same list. In the Daemonhunters Index there's a link to the Allies FAQ that states that you can take both in the same army, even if Daemonhunters are the parent army.

    Also, I could be wrong, but I believe that you can never take Heavy Support choices from allied DH or WH choices, so your list above could not have the Land Raider. If you wanted a Land Raider, it would have to be purchased as a transport for the Inquisitor Lord HQ.
    Last edited by spaar; June 2nd, 2008 at 22:29.
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    Page 25 of Codex, Witch Hunters, grey box, answers your questions.
    It is essentially the same grey box as on Page 21 of Codex, Daemonhunters.

    They do, in fact, reference each other in that very place.
    RecklessFable's Journey to Mediocrity (Painting an IG army)
    I've been addicted to World of Tanks lately and neglecting my IG... But it is so... much... fun!

  6. #5
    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Yup, the DH and WH codices give the details on how the ally rules work. Also, the ability to take Imperial Guard Inductees/Space Marine Allies is somewhat separate from the normal 'ally' rules. These are spelled out in the 'parent' codex, unlike most rules for allies. The other thing to note is that they specify other 'Inquisition' armies, as I recall, so Alien Hunters (which only exist in the kinda-sorta-mini-codex Deathwatch) are included as well. You could have a base-DH list with both WH and AH allied units, and Imperial Guard Inductees, though you'd be crunched for both points and FOC slots =).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hasten View Post
    Yup, the DH and WH codices give the details on how the ally rules work. Also, the ability to take Imperial Guard Inductees/Space Marine Allies is somewhat separate from the normal 'ally' rules. These are spelled out in the 'parent' codex, unlike most rules for allies. The other thing to note is that they specify other 'Inquisition' armies, as I recall, so Alien Hunters (which only exist in the kinda-sorta-mini-codex Deathwatch) are included as well. You could have a base-DH list with both WH and AH allied units, and Imperial Guard Inductees, though you'd be crunched for both points and FOC slots =).

    -H
    In that grey box after naming the armies you can ally with, it states "neither Inducted IG nor Allied SM may be included in such a contingent (ie allied WH or DH army). Which is where I think it's prohibitive. I can't find a loophole or the mention of other Inquisition armies (Deathwatch) that you guys are talking about unless I'm reading the book wrong or it's hidden somewhere. Page 25 in the WH and page 21 in the DH codex.

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    Senior Member spaar's Avatar
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    I believe that this is the paragraph in question:

    "Daemonhunters cannot ally with a force that uses any other type of ally with the exception of separate detachments and units from the other Ordos of the Inquisition." pg. 21 Daemonhunters Codex (I will remove this if it infringes copyright laws)

    Here's where I think that the confusion of the wording sets in; the words "separate detachments" ... what is that referring to?

    Here's how I would put that into better english:

    "Daemonhunters cannot ally with a force that is using other allied forces (such as Kroot Mercenaries), unless that ally is from any other Ordos of the Inquisition"

    Am I wrong in translating it that way?

    Here's some of the clarification that I can give to the other confusing part "cannot ally with a force that uses any other type of ally". I believe that this is mainly referring to Kroot Mercenaries, as I am unaware of any other ally.

    The next confusing passage is included in the paragraph that states:

    "Neither Inducted Imperial Guard nor Allied Space Marines may be included in such a contingent, and the total number of Daemonhunters unit choices may not exced the following:" ...

    May be included in what contingent? It never really clarifies that.

    The Witch Hunters book has the exact same wording pretty much.
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    well, the contingent is specifically referring to the WH or DH army and the force it is allied with (listed above, all the space marine chapters and IG and WH/DH respectively)


    To me, that makes it sound like they don't want you mixing all those armies/models together for whatever reason. That's why usually I see Witchhunter base army with DH as the ally. Because that way you still get all the heavy support that the WH have, all the InQ and assassins but can still pick out some GKtermies for close combat.

    I don't know how this compares to the 'normal' allies rules cause I don't know where those are in the rulebook, and from what I've heard, all the new codices don't have allies rules, because GW is discontinuing those rules.

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    PP is my master now... Hasten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckero0 View Post
    In that grey box after naming the armies you can ally with, it states "neither Inducted IG nor Allied SM may be included in such a contingent (ie allied WH or DH army). Which is where I think it's prohibitive. I can't find a loophole or the mention of other Inquisition armies (Deathwatch) that you guys are talking about unless I'm reading the book wrong or it's hidden somewhere. Page 25 in the WH and page 21 in the DH codex.
    Well, I could be mistaken, but the 'contingent' they're talking about in page 21 is the group of units you're using as allies in another 'parent' list. After all, it proceeds to specify the number of DH units you may use in the contingent. So in other words, you couldn't Induct IG units, and then use them as allies in another list like Space Marines. The 'other branches of the Inquisition' bit is further down, the second paragraph from the end in the DH codex, and that's what allows you to add both WH and Deathwatch units to the DH list.

    So your base DH list might look like this:
    ===DH===
    HQ: I-Lord
    Troop1: ISTx8
    Troop2: ISTx8
    Troop3: Inducted Imperial Guard Armored Fist

    And then you could add in the following allies:
    ===WH===
    Fast Attack: Seraphim x8

    ===Deathwatch===
    HQ: Deathwatch Kill Team

    Make sense?

    -H
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  11. #10
    Senior Member spaar's Avatar
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    I see what you're saying, but I think that there's still more evidence to support the argument that they can:

    "Daemonhunters cannot ally with a force that uses any other type of ally with the exception of separate detachments and units from the other Ordos of the Inquisition."

    #1) Why even mention the exception unless they could take the WH allies? Shouldn't they instead just cut it off at "Daemonhunters cannot ally with a force that uses any other type of ally" ?

    #2) What do they even mean to accomplish by mentioning "the other Ordos of the Inquisition." ?

    "Either inducted Imperial Guard or allied Space Marines can be used in any one Daemonhunters army, but not both."

    #3) Never does it say you can't ally Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters with 1 more ally, while it does specifically state that you can't include inducted Space Marines and Inducted Imperial Guard into the same army. Wouldn't they also mention Witch Hunters here?

    Here's the evidence supporting that they can't:

    #1) In the Errata on GW's Website it states: "Daemonhunters may not ally with any detachment that uses any other kind of ally (Kroot Mercs etc.)."

    #2) The paragraph that says, "Neither Inducted Guard or Space Marines may be included in such a contingent..." While it's not completely clear that it refers to the Ordos, it does seem to infer that.


    Here's what I want to propose; I think that it's about time the annoying questions that we have as Daemonhunters/Witch Hunters should get clarified. We need written proof posted in the White Dwarf or on the Website so that these dumb questions can get answered once and for all. It's ridiculous that GW hasn't answered these questions after 4 years...

    I say that we start a petition (in a separate thread), asking that GW update the Errata & FAQ to answer the following:

    1) This allies question.
    2) The Grey Knights Land Raider/Land Raider Crusader rules questions.
    3) The cost of the Grey Knights Land Raider/Land Raider crusaders.
    4) Do we use the updated rules for Teleport Homers, Assault Cannons, etc as found in the Space Marines Codex?

    Any other issues that need to get addressed?
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