Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
we use a lot of melta average strenth and AP1 weapons in WH and I heard that the vehicle charts were being rewritten or condensed into 1 chart. I was just wondering if melta weapons were going to get worse because of the new chart(s). Has anyone seen the new 5th edition book and figured out if melta guns, and inferno pistols are going to be worth taking, or should I just stick with flamers and hope something else can take out those vehicles. Are things like powerfists and melta weapons going to be good still?
Vehicles become more difficult to destroy. Glancing hits cannot destroy them, penetrating hits only destroy them on a 5 or 6 instead of the current 4+.
Instead of converting glances to penetrations, AP1 weapons add +1 to the damage chart. As a result, melta weapons will be able to destroy vehicles on a 6 with a glance, and on a 4+ with a penetration. Sound familiar? Basically, melta weapons will become what weapons were in 4th edition normally, and will be almost identical ...
For melta only, these will be the results/charts (and since these aren't the ACTUAL charts, but the results modified based on melta, I think this isn't a violation):
1-2 = Shaken
3 = Stunned
4 = Weapon Destroyed
5 = Immobilized
6 = Wrecked
1 = Stunned
2 = Weapon Destroyed
3 = Immobilized
4 = Wrecked
5-6 = Explodes
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
IMO the change hurts the exorcist a lot more than Melta weapons. At least in 4th Ed if you got the lucky 6 on AV14 you had then had good odds of doing something nasty to it. Melta weapons inside half range aren't going to be suffering reduction to the glancing modifier too often! (except stupid monoliths.)
Overall vehicles getting harder to kill is a Good Thing(tm) for WH armies. Our ability to kill other people's vehicles isn't going down too disproportionately to any other army.
Side note: Inferno Pistols are not AP1.
sounds like the melta weapons stay about the same, slight weakness. Evisorators are probably about the same as well right?
Assaults against vehicles are getting a huge buff. Really the only thing that has a prayer of surviving an eviscerator in 5th Ed is a Land Raider or Monolisth =)
The eviscerator is also getting something of a 'buff' in relative terms compared to its cousin the chainfist. Since you won't be able to claim a bonus attack for a second weapon with the chainfist anyway, the eviscerator being two handed (which deflates its cost) is no longer such a drawback!
Edit: Wooo! 1,000th post
most chainfist models are str4 though, which is a big advantage. Plus we're an old book - I think that's the only reason for the difference in points.
I thought assaulting vehicles was getting easier except for skimmers. Because to shoot their big stuff, they can't move, so they don't get their cover save.
Short answer = "no".
Meltas will still have very nearly the same success rate relative to other vehicle-killers.
But the Melta question really begs the question of the direction of the whole system.
I'll make a guess what they're up to and try to sumarize.
INTENTIONS WITH 5th:
It is pretty clear that mobility dominates the game right now.
It seems they're trying to shift some of the power back to footsloggers and mass.
By "flattening" out the Vehicle Damage table (it's not as severe to vehicles and passengers),
and also by allowing real LOS (which basically means that everybody sees everybody else
much more of the time), it will lessen the effects of:
So now if your vehicle is "seen first" you are not quite as screwed as before.
(But not by a lot. It's maybe 10-15% more forgiving)
And now a larger foot force will be able to bring more of its guns to bear on more targets.
To correct the "peekaboo-I beat-you" effect,
What they *really* should have done was introduce "Opportunity Fire" for vehicles.
(Your vehicle forfeits 1 or 2 actions for the right to a free shot during the opponent turn).
Not only does it elegantly (and intellectually) solve the "peeekaboo" problem,
but it adds realism*, and it also introduces the concept of attacking "board space", which I find very interesting, and I think it might be pretty well balanced.
*(in reality, classic anti-tank units ambush from a fixed position)
Op Fire is an "environmental" or "global" change, and has a much more profound
effect upon the feel of the game than this silly waffling back and forth with miniscule
details such as LOS, screening, CC Casualty removal, IC Independence in CC,
and CC killzone. To keep messing with these little details only causes trouble.
Worse still, this "real LOS" stuff is obviously a headache. I am shocked at the stupidity.
MEANINGFUL CHANGES vs STUPID CHANGES:
If you ask me, Cities of Death were far more interesting and meaningful
changes than the differences created with 4th and 5th combined. The reason is
because it changed the environment, not the petty details.
GW's hearts were in the right place this time, but they clearly don't care
about maintaining an excellent gaming system. They're selling models.
The missions in 5th are different, and that is where I
hope for the emergence of the most interesting changes.
This is just a personal opinion, and admittedly
pre-mature, for I have not played the new rules yet.
Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70