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ok guys really need your help now,
ive just started collecting my sm army, and have had two small point skirmishes, and got spanked both times, so need help with tactics.
im playing my brother who just started a chaos army, heres what i have so far.
hq. master with power fist and bolter plasma combo.
troop. tac squad, 7 bolters, 1 flamer, 1 rocket, 1 serg with bp and chainsword.
i know the tac squad doesnt have best combo of wpns, but i bought the battle for macragee set, and thats what it came with...
now my bro has.
hq. chaos lord of khorne, term armour, khonre daemon wpn, mark of khorn, and strm bolter.
troop. chaos marines, 7 bolters, icon bearer (khorne), 1 hvy bolter, champion with power fist and bp.
so we each have an hq and a 10 man squad of troops with a mix of wpns.
so far ive done ok by pot shoting him, but as soon as he closes into cc, its pretty much over. his hq with the daemon wpn gets a ridiculous amount of attacks, and has taken out my entire tac squad in 1 round!
i want to make an assault army, so i plan on buying some assault troops and another tac squad with a power fist, in the next couple days but until then, any idea on what to do, to put an end to his evil!!!
also im going to buy a box tomorrow would you guys recommend getting my second tac squad, or maybe an assault squad, first?
First if al: Hi and welcome to Librarium online :party:
Since I'm one of the newer players here, don't take my words to literally...
But hey, I also have an opinion
What I would do is: buy an assault squad, because that will make you much more assaulty and less shootie...
Then split-up you're big 10 man tac. squad in 2x 5 tac.squads (One with ML and one with flamer/sergeant)
You're ML squad can stay back and pick some of, while you're assault marines and flamersquad (with commander?) can run forward.
Congratulations - you've just learned one of the cardinal rules of 40K: unless it's mortally wounded, never get into an assault with anything Khornate. Even if it's wounded, it's still not a great plan. One of the classics, right up there with "Genestealers: Ohmygod, ohmygod, they're eating my face!!!", "Deepstrikers + Battle Cannon = dead Deepstrikers" and a perennial favourite, "Railguns - find cover... NOW."
All joking aside, I'm not surprised that you're getting crushed... I'm pretty sure he's fielding significantly more points than you are, and the fact that those points are: A) in close combat models, and KHORNATE close combat models, no less, means that you have absolutely no realistic chance once he hits combat.
Look through your respective codices and add up your points - there ought to be quite a difference.
It doesn't help that what you do have is definitely not optimized for any specific role, either. Your commander is one of those builds that looks really cool, but doesn't really work out in-game - he's got a Powerfist, but a gun that doesn't grant an extra attack. And because he's an IC, he can be targeted in combat and crushed before the Powerfist strikes. Call it unimaginative, but there's a reason why Marine characters almost always carry a power weapon, force weapon, or lightning claws: striking at I5 is almost always much more useful than striking harder at I1. Either way though, he's almost never going to be a match for a tooled up Khornate character - even a fully loaded Marine monster character is probably an even draw, really.
The tactical squads are actually a pretty even match... His HB gets more shots, your ML hits harder, and that flamer can cause a fair bit of damage just before a charge. Otherwise, they're equally sized, so you have a slight advantage... Until his aspiring champion makes an appearance. A powerfist Sergeant in a squad makes all the difference in the world once things get up close and personal, and without an equivalent in your squad, they almost automatically lose combat every time.
Now, for your expansion plans. IMHO, before you go loading up with fancy stuff like Assault squads, you need to consolidate your foundation first. More Tactical Marines is a good plan, be sure to get some special and heavy weapons so you can try them out and see how they do, and definitely get some Sergeants built for the squads! Powerfist sergeants are popular, but I like to use Thunder Hammers, Power Weapons and Lightning Claws equally well - variety is good. Going forward, Assault Marines are a solid choice (although they'll have their work cut out for them against Khorne), and you might look at putting together some assault Veterans - they're a fun, characterful unit with tons of potential.
Against Khorne, you've got to accept that you're only ever likely to match them in combat, and more probably they'll outclass you - it's what they do. You're generally a more shooty force though, so your best bet is likely to whittle down his forces as much as you can at range (and preferably toast that Lord entirely - Meltas and Lascannons are handy here), then let your assault elements loose on his weakened squads and hope they're too hurt to stay in the fight. Try to use a collapsing gunline - shoot him at range until he starts getting too close, then fall back, shooting as you go and doing your best to avoid actual combat as long as possible. It's a tried and true method for getting another round or two of shooting against a charging foe. Also, use terrain wisely. The longer he spends bogged down in terrain trying to chase you, the longer you have to deal with him. And if all else fails, you want to be in cover when he charges you - at best, you'll strike first, and at worst, you'll all hit at the same time... No downside!
thanks for all your help guys,
i had my third battle today after, taking your guys's advice, and i actually won!
i revised my 10 man tac squad into 2 5 man, one rocket, and one serg, flamer.
and after adding all the points up, he was at, 385, and i was at 296 -ouch-
so since i didnt have any more models to put into the army, i just decked them out with gear, master craft pwr wpns and what not. i ended up with 385 exactly.
first couple of turns were pretty good, my rocket squad, taking a wound off the khorn lord and, 2 or 3 kills from his 10man squad.
then he charged....
round three my flamer squad and hq were charged by his, 10man khorne. i lost all 3 bolters instantly, my guys fought back hard and before they died the also popped three.
then it was my hqs power fist, he did well, and killed 3. so we won the that round, by the end of the next cc round i was left with just my hq vrs his champion, and 3 bolters... my hq, killed them all, although he died in the process!!! popped by the champions pwr fist..
all i had left was 3bolters and my rocket, on the other side of the table, and all he had was his lord.
he charged and i lucked out, his daemon wpn rebelled in the next two turns, effectivly killing himself.... i was left with 2bolters and a rocket, so a victory, even though its slim, its better than a massacure
Congrats on the win ^^
You made the emperor proud! :party:
I'm not a big fan of putting weapons on my Independent Characters that make them strike at Initiative 1 in an assault.
Mainly because I'm paying a lot of points for a model that I would like to use, and there's a very real chance that my Master/Epistolary/Master of Sanctity might die before he gets to fight back.
I reserve those weapons (Power Fists/Claws, Lightning Hammers, etc.) for squad leaders that can't be picked out.