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This week's topic is proudly brought to you by stayscrunchyinmilk!
Its a pretty intersting topic really, albiet a bit more obscure. Thus I'm curious! I've never actually used these boys myself (well, maybe once, although I do own the models), but they do come up in conversation from time to time, especially when trying to perhaps 'out cheese' the other dude.
An army type I have long wanted to proxy is the famous '7 Deep Striking Demo Charge' army, where you take 2 bare bones special weapons squads with demo charges, and 5 one man last chancer specialist units, all also with demolition charges.
This way, for a measly total of 330 points, you have 2 special characters, 7 deepstriking scoring units, and 7 demolition charges! Could be nasty if it works.
Also, a mate of mine is starting up a proper penal legion (sergeants as prison guards, the rest in orange, and so on), and he'll probably use the last chancers 'cos it would be weird without 'em!
So what are your thoughts? Have you used these guys? Are there any cheesy tactics you might have tried? Start spilling guys!!
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
Perfect timing. I am thinking of also having a penal legion. I would love to see pictures and the lists (I do remember seeing one list w/ lots of grenade launchers). I am also working out a trade for the old set. I have the white dwarf and I know some people that would let me use the old rules (each character had a special rule).
It appears you can do alot w/ the Last Chancers, and after filling an HQ they fill a troops so even 5th edition some should be scoring units, perhaps even 1 man deepstriking squads.
It seems to be the only way to reasonably get demo charges without taking a doctrine to only get two at the expense of sniper squads. I imagine snipers 4+ wound are good against demons, i had to roll 6s to wound troops with my lasgun.
A chimera filled with 12 psykers might be fun in a large game.
ok just to let u know they wont be scoring units for capturing objectives due to the new rules. but here is my opinion of last chances, i was going to do this but because i cant buy the models i need serperate anymore. what i was going to do is get a full group of laster chancers(20) and give them all plasma funes and put them into groups of 5. it makes a perfect anti sm unit and it will realy scare them. nothing is more scary than seeing a unit full of plasma guns for a sm player.
but like i said for my to do this now it would cost around £140 with in my mind is not werth it or u can find a cheep way of making alot of plasma guns
The Last Chancers work almost anywhere, you can use them in a Catachan army as an elite force of veterans dispatched to knock out key positions. At least thats what I use them for.
Asking for suggestions without knowing what you're planning on doing is like asking a blind man what color shirt matches your eyes.
Hooray! I've been practicing and waiting to regurtitate all maner of information about Shaeffers Last Chancers, And will so as follows:
The first thing about picking them is how they fit into your army. They are not army specific (*1), unlike Creed and Kell or Gaunt, so can go in anyone's army, and bar allies there is no other 2nd HQ choice you will have to drop to include them. Then, as you continue reading their entry, if you include 8 (Including Shaeffer and Kage - Confirmed in the FAQ) they will count as a troop choice - Why buy that second Junior Officer? They also take no doctrines, and all automatically come with Infiltrate and Deep Strike.
As clarified in the FAQ each sub-units score, and will continue to do so in 5th Ed, as they are a troop choice (if you buy x8 minimum) - a one man shotgun toting trooper can be a scoring unit to secure table quaters and objectives.
*1 - Although in the Codex it states a Cadian army can be Cadian without complying with the printed (in codex) doctrines, so you *could* include Creed and Kell with a made up list of doctrines, the majority of Tounaments will have their OWN rules pack, and I have yet to see one that doesn't repeal this, stating they must be as listed to be Cadian entry etc.
The Stats Involved
At nearly double the cost of a standard guardsman they need to make it up in their stats somehow. In my opinion they do, and do so as follows: They have a better BS, and one more attack. They can (Individually varied, as per your choice) be equipped with either a shotgun, laspistol & ccw, or lasgun, before being equipped with anyhing else (To be addressed later) They also automatically pass all Leadership and Morale tests as long as Shaeffer is alive, - And this will include Target priority tests if equipped with a heavy weapon. They also infiltrate - always a good tactic for heavy weapons (Placing against your targets after the opponent has deployed) and deep strike - Usefull in some applications.
Shaeffer (*2) himself is the only personnell (Bar Kell) with a WS5, and as such is better than the best equipped HSO for melee combat - He comes with every piece of equipment you'd want:
The important one is that he doesn't die from the first Insta-Kill (a problem with Guard),
He has a power weapon and plasma pistol (Very good with his Stats),
Carapace armour and grenades (always good / Notably devoid from some special characters)
and to boot he can re-deploy one infantry unit at the start of the game (Read the entry in the wargear section for full details)
For his stat's and equipment vs cost he's a deal - as long as you wanted a melee character. I accept his cost to have access to the rest of the unit, and consider him a nasty counter-charge unit. (I use him for counter charge, ensuring I hide him early in the game to keep him alive long enough that I can the LD and morale tests rule early on.) If there is one dissappointing thing about him it is that he has T3 and STR3 - the same as any other guardsmen, so only wounds on a 5, and gives away 3's to wound (normally)
Kage, at first glance is terrible. He doesn't have a power weapon, or many distinguishing features, - He does have 2 wounds, and a 5+ Invunerable save, and is an Independant character, which seems poor for his compulsory cost.
However, he has one absolutely exellent use:
If you use the second (of 5) sub-unit allocation on him and him alone, he is a independant character. He can then join your unit of, say 50 conscripts, and as long as Shaeffer is alive automatically pass LD and Morale tests. That's better than a comissar, who rolls and removes a man, and he's cheaper (With a 5+ Invunerable save thrown in.)
If I don't use him for that I attach him to a demo charge trooper and deep strike him (He's the "spotter" - see later) If the demo charges scatter back he has a one in 3 chance of surviving to continue running around and being a pest - He is equipped with Krak grenades to "try it on" against vehicles, or "pest" charging a heavy weapon squad.
or with his demo charge companion (Demo thrown) still scores (although on his own won't as he's an IC).
He can be a devilishly irritating melee opponent - On his own, charging a group of devastators - say 3 are within 2" of him - He should survive, (thanks to 2x wounds), tying them up in their turn, so they don't fire. (Don't expect him to win, but it's a usefull tactic if he's there.)
*2 - I would seriously reccomend putting shaeffer either into 1) A sub unit on his own - he stops scoring (as an IC), however cannot then be targeted. (and can easily be tucked away while infiltrating) to ensure his longevity re the pass-all-morale-and-LD-tests. I would advise against deep striking him, as although in reserve that rule still works, if he scatters and dies that's it. 2) A largeish melee orientated unit, as that's what he's good at. (Only in larger games - they become too expensive for small games)
Sub Units and their Uses:
Gentlemen, to make best use of your Last chancers you need to use their distinct abilities: Their High BS, Their access to equipment and LD (and the extra attack will also be covered)
Demo Squads: (37 points per team, total)
By far the only real way to use a Demo charge is to deep strike it - It's too good a target for the opponent to let walk around a battlefield, is short range, and one shot (So, like all other deep striking close range IG units after shooting the turn it deep struck it's considered completely sacraficial)
The best way of deep striking a demo charge is to use a "spotter" - This is the man you place first, and center your deep striking unit around when the scatter has been resolved. The difference, if you scatter, of being able to choose what side you place your demo charge is really important - that extra 2" can make all the difference with your 6" range weapon.
If I'm not using Kage for LD this is where he goes - If the Demo charge scatters back He'll still get his 5+ Invunerable Save.
The best targets for the demo charge are Transports (If you land behind it it you use the rear armour) - And the Demo charge is a Ordenance weapon, who'se damage table really dislikes occupants.
I generally equip the squad with shotguns, so I can move about and shoot, and have the option of charging should i wish (That's four shots and six attacks on the charge - for 2x Men! - and they come with Frag & Krak grenades, so don't sniff) alternatively ccw & laspistol is a valid choice. In fact, since you've upgraded one to a specialist anyway a bolt pistol woudn't go amiss with his bs (But don't forget to model it for WYSWYG)
They also continue scoring untill wiped out (as a 2x man team).
P.S. I use the demo trooper from the boxed set, with lasgun removed and a shotgun pinned on just above the handle, and a converted catchan (With the spare sentinal head with cigar and shades & stick of dynamite scratch built from sprue offcuts in hand)
The Melta Gun Drop Man: (26 points each, Total)
The principle is really simple: Deep strike a man with a melta gun behind a vehicle, and hit it on a 3+. He costs peanuts, so there's not too much to worry about.
He also has 2x attacks, and as special weapons are not Handed in the IG codex (Take objections to the rules forum first, you'll find i'm right) and it doesn't replace a existing weapon I'd give him a laspistol sidearm and ccw for the extra attack.
Oh, as an aside I used to give him carapace armour in a attempt to heep him alive. If he gets attention, he'll die with a 4+ save or no save, so don't bother adding 20% to his cost.
P.S. I use the Metal Catchan Melta gun and "animal" from the boxed set for these guys.
The Lascannon Team (52 points each, Total)
A 2x man team infiltrates, using their BS4 and a Lascannon. This is for shooting opponents armour. Nuff said.
Don't forget, Infiltrating does not mean deploy closer to the opponent - You can deploy on your side of the table (Maybe in the corner of the building that couldn't take another squad?) Another reason to do so is that you can start out of range of most small arms, so that marine combat squad can't just eradicate you at a whim.
In comparison to a Standard guardsman Lascannon Anti-tank team two of these teams are: 1) Exactly the same amount of hits on average, 2) Cheaper, with Infiltrate, 3) Can choose different targets. (If you had 2x seperate squads) 4) Have better Target Priority (Automatic pass vs 7's on 2D6) They are frailer, with 4x wounds to 6, but they can be two different targets, (If you can spare the sub-units) requiring two different squads shooting at them (and passing target priority to do so if you've deployed them right), or if a 4x man team with 2x L/Cannons (as one sub-unit) tend to be more use than lascannons as they hang about until wiped out, in comparison to taking LD tests when shot.
Really, place them in cover though.
P.S. I use the ond citadel lascannons, so they're shoulder mounted to fit in cover better.
The Heavy Bolter Teams (37 points each, Total)
Faily identical to the Lascannon team, but anti - infantry. At that cost i normally start with 2x teams in one sub unit, if not 3-4 depending on budget.
In comparison to a Standard guardsman Heavy Bolter fire Support team two of these teams are: 1) Exactly the same amount of hits on average, 2) Much Cheaper, with Infiltrate, 3) Have better Target Priority. They are slightly frailer, with 4x wounds to 6, however they'll hang about after casualties more.
Really, place them in cover though.
P.S. I use "Ox" from the boxed set, and the SM scout heavy bolters, pinned onto catchans to make them fit in cover better, and quite simply look awsome.
Some people do advocate plasma guns and deep striking them, but I find that:
1) If they're on their own the suicide potential, with their save is too dangerous - you still want that one man to be about as a scoring unit one of his units will have to spend a turn neutralising.
2) If you have more than one, for the cost you may as well get stormtroopers, with a BS of 4, and carapace armour (and other warm bodies) without using a precious sub-unit, or Hardened Vets (Cheaper than S/Troops but worse save)
The other heavy weapons available all have the same principles as the Lascannons and Heavy Bolters, but as you're paying a premium for the troops it's best to equip them with the optimal equipment - Anti Infantry = Heavy Bolter , Anti-Tank = Lascannon
P.S. Having said that I do have a couple of missile launchers and a autocannon team, One missile launcher has the distinction of a purity seal medal, (one of three models to do so) as over two consecutive games he:
Blew away a Land Raider, Whirlwind, Razorback, Attack bike, and caused the one casualty that took a blood claw unit below half, stopping it scoring.
Still more to come when i get a free lunch inc a melee application......
Last edited by stayscrunchyinmilk; June 18th, 2008 at 13:52.
I use the last chancers to create my deathworld army. I always felt that it was strange that I could have my troop choices filled with Veterans and Grenaiders all with BS4 but the support squads attached to the HQ was all BS3. Doesn't exactly scream deathworld vets.
The last chancers however allows me to field support squads using them at their BS4. Imagine the looks on the opponents face when they find out that those 3 lascannons, 3 heavy bolters, and 3 auto cannons all of a sudden hits on 3s and they are pratically fearless till Schaefer dies. Then going one step further, since Schaefer and Kage are ICs, I attach both of them to their own 10 man strong grenaider squad to take advantage of a 4+ save bodyguards and they become pratically fearless since they will be taking their ldship test off of them.
Where the heck did all them guardsmen come from?
Great Wolf! Is that the howl of the 13th?