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  1. #1
    Member Pinoy's Avatar
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    5th ed IG wishlist for elites and advisors

    Hey all,

    So With the new codex I really want to see some changes with elite units stats and special rules. The adviser mechanics needs a total overall.

    Fluff and game balance, every little kiddie is dreaming his new codex will have this.

    My dream for the new codex is that every adviser and elite unit is so appealing that me and buddies would have a hard time deciding which ones to put in our armies. I don't want to here things like..."this unit is just lacking ability and does not fit the fluff." Hopefully, this will be remedied in the next edition.

    Let me start with advisers first.

    The whole thing about putting an adviser in the command squad then each platoon command squad just needs to go. This is the main reason why you don't see many people taking many advisers. In my lowly opinion. I could be wrong...

    Changes for advisers:

    1. commissars, great stats all around, the point cost is ok considering the leadership boost, hopefully the war gear will have many options cause I really dig the storm bolter. Which I put on all my officers by the way. I hope this will not change but I suspect that it will.

    2. sanctioned pyskers, low point cost is pretty good, the force weapon can be flavor ful and pack a punch if you are lucky, but I can never get these guys to be really worth it. Some, have had mixed results and minimal success. The only thing I want to see change is maybe that these guys will have random powers that are useful. Holy crap, I mean even a weird boy is so much cooler than these guys. I would say sanctioned pyskers are the most uncool unit to take a perils of the warp test in all of 40k. Something needs to be changed. I just don't know what.

    3. priests, cool fluff, cool special rules, the point cost could be lower I think it should be halved. I hope they keep the eviscerator though. That would be the only reason I would have it. But I think in 5th ed. The evy looses its 2d6 penetration.

    Elite units changes:


    1. hardened vets, the best choice for elites. Everything is pretty good here. In fact it is great. I will leave the debating to more experienced members to discuss potential change. I always run three units in my army.

    2. ogryns, must increase the T to that of an ork warboss and possibly give an option to upgrade to carapace. This will justify the expensive point cost and do justice to the cool ogryn fluff which is never lived up to on the table top.

    3. stormtroopers, another good unit, not great though, i stay with hardened vets. Though i will not start a debate about which one is better. Suffice it to say they are a good unit but i would like to see something else done with them. By the way I think the hell gun stats should not be changed. If it did it would be unbalanced and unfluffy. I think an upgrade like the Elysians were given in Imperial Armour II would be better for both fluff and balance.

    upgrade 2 to 3 pts per model, grenade launcher, once per match the entire squad can opt to fire a krak or frag grenade, All models with a hellgun must fire and must fire the same type. Anyhow, I think that would be cool. Any other ideas?

    4. ratling squads, I am not too sure I would like others opinions.

    5. techpriest, probably the most unused because this is the most awful unit. Though accurate and shooty this unit just lacks the staying power. Better to invest points elsewhere. I would love to see this unit become useful in the next edition.

    Tell me what you think. If you disagree courteously explain why.

    Thanks...

    If you are into lighted-hearted fun where enjoying a game has priority over power gaming then go ahead and try BLOOD BOWL. You will be presently surprised.

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  3. #2
    Hellhounds are good tanks Dakka,Dakka,Dakka's Avatar
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    for advisors, cheaper(a regular inquisitor is half the price of a priest, and comes with the ability to purchase psychic powers, a much better statline-namely weapon skill, ballistic skill, armor- and can buy himself a transport.

    also make psykers allowed to purchase psychic powers, i dont use them because i cannot rely on them(also give us better psychic powers, the only one i like is the leadership one) and they should either get it free, or have acess to a psychic hood, the biggest threat to my army is psychic powers now............

    for elites,

    vets-no problem with them, maybe allow acess to boltguns for 1 or 2 pts per model, they are vets, and i consider a hardened veteran trooper, better/higher/more inportant than a veteran sergent(BTW make veteran sergents BS 4)

    Stormtroopers- make them better, i know you voted to keep the hellgun as is, but it should be a assault weapon, considering they are supposed to be a mobile squad, if they wont make it a assault weapon, at least give us acess to giving them shotguns so i can make a mobile squad, also they should gain deepstrike/infiltrate for free(most armies have free infiltrate, so i guess you could give them that)

    BTW please explain what they did for the elysians, i am unfamillar with this and its a rare topic

    for ogryn- i agree 100% make them have Toughness 5 and either give them carapace, or give them acess to it,(they are frontline assault troops, giving them carapace armor would make sense.....) maybe give them feel no pain, they should be stronger than space marines.

    ratling-rules wise, they are probably the best elite choice other than vets, remove the 0-1(plz, but then it may be overpowered lol) change them from ratlings to regular guard sniper teams, no one(except my crazy friend who make a army out of hobbits with guns, even hobbit commisar and basalisk crews XD) likes the space hobbits with snipers, make them regular guard snipers so we can use guardsmen in tournaments. maybe give them a better leadership, but not needed,

    techpriest-its simple really, make him able to repair a DESTROYED vehicle(it fits with fluff, just because it smoked and the crew died, doesnt mean it cant be fixed) and make him 25 points himself, so he would be overall cheaper.
    Hellhounds are good tanks

    Satan - "**** you Kage! And **** you Jables! I'll get you Tenacious DDDDdddddddeeeeee!!!!!!"

  4. #3
    qsd
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    Archmagos qsd's Avatar
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    My thoughts...
    Advisors:
    The rule should be changed so that you're required to put one in the Command HQ (except maybe the priest because his special rule would mess things up), but after that, you can put the rest wherever you want.

    Commisar - the points are okay, but 30-35 would be better.

    Psykers - It's nice that they're cheap, but I would rather pay more points to get the option to choose the powers. Psychic hoods would be great too.

    Priest - They have to be cheaper - maybe 20 or 25 points instead. The only reason I ever bother using them is because I like my Arco flagellants, and even still, the priest isn't even from the IG codex...


    Elites:
    Vets - they're great as-is. The only thing I can think of is boosting the shotguns to S4 to match the Marines'.

    Storm troopers - I don't mind the hellgun, but I would also be fine if it was changed. S4 shotguns would be a nice option. The option to deepstrike/infiltrate should be allowed even when the mission doesn't normally have it.

    Ogyrns - never used them, but T5 and the option for carapace sound good.

    Ratlings - never used them

    Techpriests - They should be cheaper - not sure what point cost would be good. It would be nice if the servitors were cheaper too; something like: heavy bolter for +10pts, multi-melta for +15, plasma cannon for +25 and no limit, and close combat upgrade for +10pts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dakka,Dakka,Dakka View Post
    techpriest-its simple really, make him able to repair a DESTROYED vehicle(it fits with fluff, just because it smoked and the crew died, doesnt mean it cant be fixed) and make him 25 points himself, so he would be overall cheaper.
    Personally I don't really think they should be able to repair destroyed vehicles. I see two big issues: 1) Yes, wrecked vehicles can be repaired, but they would probably need a repair station, sufficient time, and preferably work conditions where there aren't people/things trying to kill you. 2) Where does the specialized replacement tank crew come from? (Enginseers are only trained to fix things; they're not warriors)
    There is no such thing as a plea for innocence in my court. A plea for innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.
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  5. #4
    Hellhounds are good tanks Dakka,Dakka,Dakka's Avatar
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    im sure in the vast imperium, there is a tank crew who survived when thier tank died, that can replace the dead crew.

    make it so he can repair a destroyed vehicle on a 6+, and its stunned for the following turn, if he succeeds(make him 0-1 so people dont spam on enginseers)
    Hellhounds are good tanks

    Satan - "**** you Kage! And **** you Jables! I'll get you Tenacious DDDDdddddddeeeeee!!!!!!"

  6. #5
    Pedantic Englishman Wolf Lord Herby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakka,Dakka,Dakka View Post
    im sure in the vast imperium, there is a tank crew who survived when thier tank died, that can replace the dead crew.

    make it so he can repair a destroyed vehicle on a 6+, and its stunned for the following turn, if he succeeds(make him 0-1 so people dont spam on enginseers)
    There may be crews in the vastness of the Imperium, but there probably isn't one hiding under that twig next to where the tank just got shot up. You could maybe have the T-Priest running around with a 'spare' 5-man tank crew, but the rules would have to be fairly complicated. A Russ has a crew of 5, so what if only 3 survive to clamber into the destroyed vehicle? And I agree with QSD, a tank that is destroyed to the extent that it can no-longer function would need much more than the jury-rigged battlefield repairs a Techpriest can do in the heat of battle.
    FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC

  7. #6
    Senior Member omegoku's Avatar
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    Advisors are very fluffy and I always took commisars.

    Advisor rules should be more flexible.
    Something like.
    You can take 0-5 Commisars, 0-5 Psykers, 0-5 Priests. They do not take up FoC.
    Each Advisor must be allocated to a squad before the game starts, he may never leave the squad but may join another if his squad is wiped out.
    The first Commisar and Psyker purchases must join the HQ Command Squad.
    All remaining Advisors can be allocated to any squad.
    If a Commisar is placed in a squad of Storm troopers he may take carapace armour for free.
    If an advisor is added to rough rider squad he must also be mounted (free)
    If an advisor is added to a vehicle Squad, he must ride in the Squad leaders vehicle.

    Commisar
    4 4 3 3 2 4 2 10 5+ 40 points
    Weapons: laspistol and power sword.
    Options: may replace laspistol with bolt pistol for 1 pt, or plasma pistol for 10 points
    May replace powersword with power fist for +10 points.
    May take a bolter for +2 points, or Storm Bolter for +5
    Rules: The Emperors will! Squad may use the Commisars Ld for all Ld based tests (except psychic powers)
    Failure is Death: If the squad fails a Ld test to fall back or become pinned, the Commisar will execute the officer or a line guardsman if no officer is present The squad counts as passing the test and is fearless for 1 turn. The Commisar takes over and cannot execute any more members (at least until after the battle is over)
    For your own good: If a Psyker in the same squad as the Commisar gets suffers the Perils of the Warp, he will execute him immediately.

    Priest
    4 3 3 3 2 4 2 8 - 40 points
    Weapons: Laspistol and Eviserator
    Rules:
    Eviserator. Is a 2 handed chainfist that strikes in initiative order the turn the priest charges.
    Follow me into battle! The priest and his squad are fearless in close combat. The whole squad has furious charge

    Psyker
    2 2 3 3 2 3 1 8 - 40 points
    Weapons: force Weapon and laspistol
    Rules: Psychic

    The Psyker may select one of the following psychic powers

    Force Lightning. Take a psychic test in the shooting phase. If passed the nearest enemy unit (in LoS) is hit with D6 S3 automatically. This does not force the rest of the squad to fire at the same squad. Max range is 24"
    Psychic shield. Take a psychic test in the movement phase. If passed the psyker and his squad have a 2+ sv to ignore all psychic attacks against them. They can choose not to take the sv. lasts until psykers next turn
    Ward. Take a psychic test in the movement phase. If passed the psyker and his squad have a 6+ invulnerable sv until the next turn
    Precog. Take a test before the unit fires. If passed the whole unit, including the Psyker can reroll to hit rolls of 1 in this round of shooting.
    Emperors Strength. take a test at the start of the assault phase. The Psyker doubles the units number of attacks for that turn (himself included) but must take a toughness test after combat resolution or takes a wound with no save.

    As for elites.

    vets. Improve shotgun to S4. otherwise they are good

    Storm troopers Free infiltrate or deepstrike, exchange hellguns for S4 shotguns for free. May take 4 special weapons if the squad is 10 strong, excluding advisors.

    Ogryns Increase T to 5. Fearless if they are accompanied by Commisar. Fell no Pain.

    Snipers. Can take Ratlings or Guard (modeling choice, although 5th edition True LoS might make midgets popular)
    3 4 3 3 1 3 1 8 5+
    Armed with Sniper rifle (SX Ap 5 range 36" Heavy 1)
    Rules: You can take up to 10 snipers per FoC. Each can be deployed seperately or in squads of any number (eg 5 units of 2, one unit of 10, etc)
    Infiltrate, Scouts.
    Snipers must be deployed in infiltrators deployment phase.
    Camoline: All sniopers have camoline and therefore get +1 to cover svs.
    Sniper Suppression: Any unit that takes a wound from sniper squad takes pinning test at Ld - number of wounds caused by snipers that turn (eg space marines take 2 casualties form sniper squad. Ld is 8-2 = 6.

    Techpriests. You may take one techpresit for every Heavy Support FoC taken up by a tank or tank squad.
    He may take up to 4 servitors.
    Can repair vehicles damage. Roll a dice when the techpriest moves into base to base with a vehicle. On a 6 the vehicle ignores one piece of damage. (either weapon destroyed, immobilised or crew shaken/stunned) players choice. Each servitor adds +1 to roll but if they do so they may not fire or charge or run that turn. Multiple priests can fix multiple problems on the same vehicle as long as they can get in base to base.
    Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
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    and my attempted foray into fantasy
    'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff

  8. #7
    Senior Member cadian315's Avatar
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    I think a lot of these suggestions are a bit too immoderate. They'll turn units that are no good and therefore never used at all to units you don't want to be without. Now - if that is part of GW's strategy to make us buy expensive individual metal models... maybe they'll listen. I think a balance between the current semi-ineffectiveness and being units you'll actually want can be struck.

    Regarding ogryns, I think for 25pts a model, its either going to be T5 OR Feel No Pain. I know which one I prefer - T5. Not being instant killed is so important. The two of them is a bit much for a 3 wound model. Carapace makes sense too, but then maybe they'd need a 5 pt increase.

    I think Stormtroopers ought to have a 3rd heavy weapon available - as it is, I never take Stormtroopers because I'd rather have 3 plasma gun Veteran squads available to sneak up and rapid fire Terminators etc to death. I think that allowing them to infiltrate and deepstrike (both) would be good - maybe increase their pts cost to 11.

    I think regarding the advisors, either their points cost goes down or their abilities go up. Furthermore, they require much more flexibility in terms of where they can be placed (especially Priests if they are to be relevant.) Clarification of the Commissar's execution rules would be nice, too.

    It'd be nice to get something other than Ratlings to work as snipers, but honestly since a unit of 10 is cheap in points and money, I am not complaining (that said, since I use doctrines I've never taken them)

    I think that picking your Psychic power would be good - but they'd DEFINATELY need a pts increase then - especially if they still have the ability to increase an Officer's bubble to 18" - I'd never go without Psykers if I could be guaranteed that! I also think giving them FWs by default is a bad idea - despite the fact that at S3 and with 1 attack, they're never hurting anything with them - its still unfluffy as I imagine Force Weapons as being ancient artifacts, not standard equipment for expendable witches.

    As for increasing shotguns/hellguns to S4 - I think that would necessitate a points increase too. I would be okay with making hellguns Assault 2, but that might be a bit too good, as well. By letting them move and shoot at range, it shows (as per fluff) that hellguns are consistently powerful lasguns, but not strong as a bolter in terms of their damaging effects.

  9. #8
    Senior Member sendaf's Avatar
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    Hell guns are nice as they are, if anything they should become Assault 1 weapons. Since stormtroopers are supposed to be running across the field takeing objectives, they do need a mobile gun. str 3 ap 5 is perfect for the gun, it shows how the gun is one step above the lasgun but 1 step below the bolter.

    Ogryns are ok, it just seems that rough riders can do the job cheaper and more efficently
    "Thank him who puts me loath to this revenge on you who wrong me not for him who wrongd"

  10. #9
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
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    More than anything, I want to see the Honorifica Imperialis be raised in price until a Junior Officer with HI is more expensive than a Heroic Senior Officer. I also want Iron Discipline gone; Guardsmen aren't supposed to have Marine leadership and certainly not at ID's price.



    Commissar: Make him (and most advisors) an independent character. Units he joins suffer no negatives to leadership. If they fail a leadership/morale test, the commissar caps one and they pass. Nerf his stats to ordinary Guardsman (with no Ld stat, it's pointless) and give him a bolt pistol only; he's not supposed to be a CC freak.

    Priest: Enough of us want CC Guard that this guy should swap a unit's stats around to make them better at hand-to-hand at the expense of shooting. +1WS, -1BS, +1 Attack, no heavy weapons. Or something like that.

    Psyker: Must be in a command squad (for supervision). Pick one of 3 or 4 powers. Maybe have force weapon & psychic hood options, or just leave it all to the inquisitor.

    Hellguns: Give them a reroll to wound, no AP. Anything more is overpowered, we don't want lasguns that can kill a vehicle.

    Stormtroopers: Fine as is (see Hellguns entry).

    Veterans: Lose infiltrate and the third special weapon option. They're too good right now.

    Ratlings: Fine as is.

    Ogryn: I have a bet going that these guys will be awesome.


    Ciaphas Cain special character!
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  11. #10
    Wave Man Kahoolin's Avatar
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    I like the randomness of the psyker's powers. That's what you get for 12 points.

    I think, as others have said, that advisors should be 0-5, and you can only take more than one of each type if you have one of that type in the command HQ. They should also be able to be added to more unit types. Commissars and priests should be able to lead rough riders or ogryns. It's funny, ogryns and commissars are always together in fluff, but in my codex it's illegal to have a commissar leading ogryns. Maybe psykers should only be allowed in command squads, as I can't see why largely non-combatant personnel would be attached to front line infantry squads.

    Elites are OK I think. Ogryns aren't that bad. Automatic carapace armour would be nice maybe, or perhaps just a 4+ save to represent their toughness. Ratlings could be cool if instead of space hobbits they were sneaky little ugly gnome kind of dudes. The hairy feet hobbit thing is just stupid though. If you make them guardsmen you have to explain why they are especially cowardly with low phyiscal stats. Maybe they are teenage recruits?

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