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I've been playing an Emperor's Children army for quite a while now and a friend of mine (whom I regulary play against) has an IG army. I'm having a lot of fun in these games and he's a great guy to play against, but he isn't winning a lot. So I was wondering if you guys could help ME out so I could help HIM out with his armylist... give some suggestions etc...
I'm not the expert on IG tactics and it seems like a really difficult army to play with, so any help would be greatly appreciated!
9 out of 10 times we play Cities of Death on a 4x4 board with approx 5 buildings (the GW CoD ones) and plenty of rubble. We keep our lists mainly at about 1500 pnts and just do the standard missions, nothing fancy. We DO use the rule for table-quarters though!
My army is mechanized and consists of:
1x Chaos Lord in Termi armour, Mark of Slaanesh and Daemon weap.
5x Terminators with 4x Combiplasma
1x 10-man Chaos Space Marine Squad in a Rhino with a powerfist, Mark of Slaanesh + 2x Plasmagun
1x 10-man Chaos Space Marine Squad in a Rhino with a powerfist, Mark of Slaanesh + 2x Meltagun
1x 6 Noise Marines in a Rhino with 5 Sonic Blasters and 1 Blast Master
1x Defiler with 2x CCW upgrade
1x Vindicator with Daemonic
1x Predator with Heavy Bolter upgrades
The overal tactic that I apply with this army is to use the 3 squads in the Rhinos to rush forward in turn 1, get into cover and lay down some fire.
In later turns I deepstrike the Termis for some plasma death (hopefully along with the Chaos Lord) and from there on I make it up as I go.
He usually fields
Officer with a powerweap and a retinue
Fire Support Squad with 3 Heavy Bolters
A squad with 3 Missile Launchers
Veterans with Plasmas
2x 10 Guards (No heavy weapons)
2x 10 Conscripts (no upgrades)
Leman Russ Battle Tank
He also has an autocannon in his army and fills any remaining points with a squad of Grey Knights or Arco Flagellants
He also uses the Die-Hards and Carapace armour doctorines. The Veterans are mainly used to steal a table quarter. The rest of the army mainly stands it's ground and fires everything it's got as long as they can... and there lies the problem, because if I reach it to the other side it's game over for the Guards.
Does anyone have any ideas/comments/suggestions? I suggested myself to put some fists in, and devide his heavy weapons amongst his squads (instead of a dedicated Squad). Are there any good counterattack units in a Guard army? I was thinking Ogryns myself, but I don't know how they do against Chaos.
Thanx in advance!
Nice army, although not particularly dangerous VS IG, especially in cities of death games... cover and lots of cheap grunts should negate those plasma weapons.
This is a bit odd - Its not legal, at least not what you have listed. A basic infantry platoon consists of an officer (seperate and distinct from the HQ choice officer), and at least two 10 man squads for ONE troops choice total. Perhaps you forgot a unit?
The leman russ and the hellhound are pretty good choices always, although against marines the hellhounds wont be as effective as he might otherwise like. The leman russ can be a hit and miss (literally and figeratively), as in cities of death your chaos marines will be getting cover saves, yet they will also be more likely to be bunched up.
One glaring problem with his army list that I can see (apart from the weird troops choice problem) is in his choice of doctrines. As for his gaming style, difficult as i've never seen him play...
The problem with carapace armour is that in cities of death, he will be getting lots of cover saves anyway - so its unnessary. And in hth, you WANT to be losing each combat outright, so the more armour saves you make the worse it is (I'll explain later). He should scrap this doctrine - this will free a LOT of points for more grunts, and more special weapons such as plasma guns.
Die hards is also another problem - a good IG army should know when to cut and run from combat, and this counters that. I'd scrap that too. If he really wants to be better in hth, take something like close order drill (its free!), which is all too easy to use when you are about to be charged.
It sounds like he needs to learn to stagger his units - when you are about to be hit in hth by an enemy unit, you can be prepared by making sure your squads in the area are more than 6" apart. That, and you should throw a sacrifice unit towards the enemy, one that you can afford to lose more than the others. It will be tough for the opponent to not charge your sacrificial unit, and then when they smash it in hth, they wont be able to consolidate into another IG unit. Next IG turn, the assaulting dudes get hammered by everything in rapid fire range. Hasn't failed me yet.
Too help this, as I've said, he should get rid of carapace armour, die-hards as well, and take any LD tests with his sergeants paltry Ld of 7 - low Ld is a blessing in disguise here! Also, getting rid of these two doctrines would probably buy him another leman russ, or a bunch of vets. Or anything really! I know which i'd choose.
Adding Iron discipline would be great also, just in case those running squads don't get cut down - it can help bring the sacrificial squad back into the fight.
Using the plasma (i'm assuming 3 special weapons?) vets just to claim a table quarter could be a waste of valuable points - they should be hiding, waiting for your marines to get close enough for a hosing with st7 AP 2 rapid fire, at BS4. Not everything needs to attack from turn one, these guys are best revealed at an opportune moment. And out on their own, trying to hold a table quarter by themselves, they will die too easily. A unit like this should be supported. Perhaps he should take more than one vet squad (and the doctrine that allows this)?
As for counter attack, there are a bunch of units that do ok against marines. Rough riders can be awesome (st 5 I5 powerweapons?). Ogryns, not so much - those powerfists will drop an ogryn with EACH wounding hit.
A officer squad with a priest/eviscerator or commissar/powerfist can do well against marines, as can a powerfist on his veteran squad sergeant. Powerfists anywhere else are a bad idea - IG independant characters die VERY easily in hth.
Meh. I'm tired, and not sure my post was that helpful. Probably a rample. Maybe I'll clean it up tomorrow. Hope this helps a little anyway. Bed now.
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
I played more w/ Eldar and Dark Angels than w/ IG but I try to give a humble help to a comrade in problems. We dont know what miniatures he have warming the bench, so I try to give some ideas and then he can use what he have more at hand:
1 - 1 or 2 Special Weapons Support Squads w/ Demolition Charges and maybe Meltaguns. These can take care of the Terminators at close range.
2 - Try to change the missile Launchers for Lascannons. The Predator and Vindicator are Hard targets for the krak missiles.
3 - Change the Heavy Bolters for Atocannons and fire to the Rhinos w/ them.
4 - Use Grenadier Doctrine and replace the Troops w/ 2 or 3 Storm Troopers Squads w/ 4 or 6 plasma.
5 - Can Use Veteran doctrine and ad 1 or 2 squads more w/ plasma.
6 - If he take defensive position on buildings, dont' bother w/ Carapace armor, use Camaleonine for improve the cover save.
7 - Try to ad more tanks, Demolisher or Battle Tank.
I hope these can help.
a junior officer squad with upgrades to it is a great counter charge unit (cheap and gets the job done) their is a very small chance this unit wont just get slaughtered and almost gurantees a round of rapid fire
Cameleoline is an AWESOME upgrade. 10 guys dug into a building that normally gives a 4+ cover save will become a 3+ cover save... he just gave that squad the defense of a marine
Im not sure conscripts are the best choice for him. they can counter charge, but their points would be better spent elswhere.
"Thank him who puts me loath to this revenge on you who wrong me not for him who wrongd"
conscripts are not that bad on a small board, for 1500 on a cityfight. either take 1 50 man squad, or 2 30 man squads, keep an officer near them to keep them from running, and just use the power of the lasgun, a 5 man squad of terminators will be crippled from a 50 man conscript rapidfire(unless the opponent is really [B]REALLY[B] lucky and manages to pass some 30 odd saves. conscript are also useful because they basically block one of your flanks entirely(for example, i use either 1 50 man or(preferrably)2 30 man squads, running with my Main command squad that is kitted with assault 24 weapons, to deal with light vehicles(my opponent thought he would massacre my conscripts with his dreadnought, but my command squads grenade launchers delt with this XD) they basically cover one of your flanks because it takes too long for the enemy to kill the entire squad, so he might actually ignore it(my friends biggest mistake)
carapace armor is only for drop troop armies(sometimes)
die hards as said before are not worth it
close order drill is the best docterine(in my opinion) in the gaurd codex, it helps leadership(a weakness for ig usually) and we strike at the same time as marines(note with conscript sometimes its better to assault then shoot because they hit easier in assault than shooting, and with this go at the same time as marines)
another trick with close order drill is give it to a platoon officer then give him horifica so he has I-5
i love russes, but in a battle with terrain covering a lot of the board, and forcing you to be this close, let me suggest either demolisher(can deal with terminator problem.......) or basalisk, the ability to always see the enemy is pretty good.
powerfist work with marines because they live more than 1 turn with one, a guard officer will never live long enough to use it unless you give him a lot of gear, altho a hardened vet sergent with one isnt that bad an idea..............
try to get your friend to put some heavy weapons into his squads, and all should have special weapons(i understand him, he either wants it to be like fluff with most of the army charging foward, or he wants a lot of mobile scoring units, still give the sqauds special weapons ALWAYS GIVE THEM SPECIAL WEAPONS
anyway sorry for such a long post but i hope it helps your friend(im suprised, you must be a good friend to find help for him on a forum, good luck to you and him)
Hellhounds are good tanks
Satan - "**** you Kage! And **** you Jables! I'll get you Tenacious DDDDdddddddeeeeee!!!!!!"
There's your next big problem. CoD isn't exactly super Guard friendly as it favours close quarter fighting and provides almost omnipresent cover saves which neuters the effectiveness of the IG's big cards. Perhaps try some regular missions and see how those pan out.9 out of 10 times we play Cities of Death on a 4x4 board with approx 5 buildings (the GW CoD ones) and plenty of rubble. We keep our lists mainly at about 1500 pnts and just do the standard missions, nothing fancy. We DO use the rule for table-quarters though!
Last edited by Triumph Of Man; June 18th, 2008 at 01:47.
... only triumph could turn pooing his pants into a good thing..
I don't exactly know what the layout of the map you guys play but I'd like to come forth and suggest the usage of ratlings. The little guys are WAY too cheap for what there worth. They infiltrate with snipers(much better hit and wound ratio + pinning) and if placed correctly, there INCREDLY HARD to disloge. What's even better is the fact that the models are dirt cheap to buy!
The only downer is that you can only have 1 in your army and it takes a doctrine point.
Imperial Guard: 3000 pts
Chaos Daemons: 1000 pts