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I am new to playing games of warhammer (WHFB & 40K) and new to this part of the forums (I usually lurk in the painting section) so don't know a great deal about it other than what I have read in the rule book.
I have just brought some black templars from the local hobby centre. I only chose them because they have some really cool mini's and I don't know anything about them except they are close combat.
Anyways the question is; does anyone have any tips, tactica articles or advise on going about collecting and playing Black Templars?
Your help much is apprieciated and bribe you with *rep* I shall.
CHK CHK BOOM!
Ok, let me preface this by saying I play vanilla marines, not BT, so i can't give you 1st hand knowledge of how to play BT's so take what i say with a grain of salt. However, i CAN pass on knowledge ive picked up, and just somoe generic marines advice.
1) LRCs are your friend. Try to take as many as you can get your hands on (or afford). Even though im not BTs, i have one, and they wreak very very bloody havoc on anything w/in 12". Note though: keep away (or mow down first) melta squads, they will toast you very quickly. I have learned from experience w/ shooty armies (using my friend's Guard army as an example here) that its very painful when you get cloes to the army, but having to wade through a Basalisk, a Demolisher, a Leman Russ, and 5-6 Lascannons before you get there will definitely be doing more than scratching your paintjob.
2) Numbers are your friend. I know its costly in terms of $$$ but one of the good things about BTs is that they have access to something that VERY few marine armies (even moreso GK's ) is numbers. In almost all battles, marines are outnumbered, however with your big squads (up to 20 guys!) you can afford to absorb more casualties and still stay effective. In addition, Righteous Zeal = win for charging. However, keep in mind that they are no more effective in an assault than regular tactical marines from vanilla armies. The means if your fighting specialist assault units like stealers, banshees, or (god forbid) assault terminators from other marine armies, you will be sliced and diced very quickly just like an other marines.
Thats all i can think of off the top of my head at the moment. Hope this helped you. By the way, i again stress that you take what i said with a grain of salt, and if other, more senior/actual BT players override what i say, obviously discard my advice.
The Iron LegionSpace Marine ChapterW L D3 0 1All draws are due to time limits, I always try to fight to the bitter end.
I don't play BT, but I know how I would.
In armies of less than 1,250pts, don't take the LRC. And avoid using 2 unless you're over 2,000pts.
Crusader squads can be up to 20 men, with the 10 Marines and 10 scouts. This is a weighty force, but it is too much for when you're trying to make more units on the board and have an LRC in the force. I'd say a good and survivable unit would be 10 Marines, 5 scouts, and the LRC. You'll have a powerful advancing unit to base an assault line on.
Sword Brethren, I dunno. Veteran squads without that sergeant's access to the armoury... Not exactly the best choice. Go with Dreads or Termies, and I say Dreads as a personal choice... Extra armour, Lascannon, Missile launcher.
HQ? ALways, ALWAYS take a Commander, 2nd tier. Ld10 is grand when given to everyone, but even more advantageous, you don't HAVE to use his Ld, so if you want to fail a test to run ahead, you can.
And Chaplains are rock hard, 2 claws, frags, jump pack, T Hon, and maybe the holy hand is a good combination.
Take some Bikers, and kit them out with 2 Meltaguns and a Power weapon with a Heavy Bolter backup attack bike. The Bikers are a big thing to use for an assaulty force, with their high speed and powerful shooty strength... Or just go 3 power weapons & no attack bike, or even 2-3 attack bikes.
Assault Marines are a good idea however, as they can close in faster without needing a transport to leech off of. They're a veritable powerhouse, so use them.
As heavy support... Well you're not going to need any Land Raider Crusaders, and a Normal Land Raider is a bit much (unless you like the idea of 1-2 LRCs with a LR amongst them) but a Predator wouldn't go amiss. Why? Because if you're going to have an army designed solely for assault and short range , you need the long range firepoer of the Lascannons and Heavy Bolters.
As far as unit composition goes, 2 9-10 crusader squads in rhinos with one 15-man to take the Emperor's champion in an LRC is a big troops selection. 33-36 marines in 3 vehicles is not to be ignored... This'd cost 835pts at least, and that's with no upgrades and maxing out on scouts (except on the LRC squad) and can cost 1,000pts if you have 3 Meltaguns, 3 power fists, and maxed out Marines. Back them up with 2 Hellfire Dreadnoughts for range.
Then comes HQ, you have to have the Emperor's Champ and another HQ... So take them. Emperor's Champions cost up to 140pts, so account for that until the end of the list THEN pick the vow and fill in what you need.
Captains can just be Power weapon, Bolt pistol, T Hon, and Iron Halo if you want. Hell, even a Bolter and nothing else is fine if you just want to keep him behind to give the Ld bonus to the men... But a Chaplain... He'd cost 176pts or so if tooled out well.
Fast attack should definately include some attack bikers to offer some firing support that can get to where it needs to be easily. That or some Land Speeders, you take a chance either way. Assault Marines are the other nessecity, to close in and really hurt the enemy, or at least provide a distraction.
2 groups of 2 heavy bolter attack bikes, and 5 Assault Marines costs 315pts, and to add 2 Multi-meltas to the bikes, and increase the Assault marine number to 10 is 360pts.'
If you take only 1 Predator or Vindicator in your Heavy support it is fine. A Predator can cost ~160pts with all Lascannons or ~140 with a tooled out mobile config. Vindicators are great with a Machine Spirit and Extra armour, but cost 160pts.
Note that you don't actually have to take any of my advice... but the list I suggested to you is around 2,046pts and this is off the top of my head.
Black Templars are a powerful assault army, but need to take losses to advance quickly when not in a Transport. And there are always ways to just make them run back & forth. So beware your deployment and positioning.
I hope this helped.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
Welcome brother crusader!
Lead your crusades with a Marshal to give your men extra zeal when they suffer casualties. A Power Weapon, meltabombs and Holy Orb of Antioch help too.
Use the Emperor's Champion so that his Vow may aid your assaults:
"Suffer Not The Unclean To Live" (close combat) OR
"Uphold the Honour of the Emperor" (reduce damage as you advance)
Watch the fear in your enemy's eyes as you march with a 14-strong crusader squad (10 Initiates, 4 Neophytes) replete with bolt pistols, flamer/meltagun and power fist. Lead the men with a Chaplain. He would also benefit from a power fist and holy orb. Let them be carried inside a Land Raider Crusader.
Take yet another crusader squad, a full 20-man strong. Equip as above, minus the Land Raider Crusader and chaplain. Use your Emperor's Champion to help them out!
Three bikers with vengeful power weapons or meltaguns will spell the doom of many a foe.
OK enough of that. You need to get those crusaders straight into a shooty enemy unit, taking a flank with cover. Stay away from close combat units until you've shot them up a bit. Keep pressing forward with the two crusader squads, bringing all your firepower in that area. If the enemy is fast, use your two squads to flank the middle of the battlefield, spreading them out. You may still be able to catch them out. Naturally, don't expose your crusaders to enemy firepower just to kill these fast troops. You have better units to deal with those foes.
-Seek out fast enemy troops and protect your crusaders with two Land Speeder Tornadoes.
-Boost your advance with a Venerable Dreadnought (with close combat weapon) and a Vindicator. They are necessary to take down vehicles, big monsters and massed troops at short range.
-Protect one flank with two squads of five initiates, armed with bolters and heavy weapon option. Heavy bolters are cheap anti-personnel guns while the lascannon will give you a deadly long-range vehicle-killer. Might consider Razorback instead of a squad, to give you an armoured transport option. These guys may have to move around.
-Take a Predator Annihilator for long-range fire support - the enemy will try to shoot you down at long range. Alternatively, give your characters teleport homers and take a terminator squad to teleport them down to aid your crusaders. Those guys can take some punishment from AP3 weapons and above and still stand up. Their power fists will also crush man and machine alike in close combat. The two weapon options are a must! Assault cannons are efficient at destroying troops and light vehicles from a decent range.
-You might want to take an assault squad instead of a large crusader squad. The extra speed afforded by the jump packs helps you decide who you want to fight in close combat. They are great for counter-attacking and claiming objectives in the last turn. Take the power fist option for crushing vehicles and big monsters.
I also play black templar. I have a mainly infantry based army, because tanks are expensive, so I cannot help you out with tanks, but troop wise, I think I can at least give a few tips.
1. The Emperor's Champion's Vows are quite good. Even though some of them have a down side, the up side is worth the risk most of the time. Although, you might want to look at what your opponent in fielding before making your decision.
2. Sword Brethren (Terminators or regular old power armor), are fun to use because of their veteran skills.
3. The Neophyte's shotgun, stinks. (I could be wrong, but I just don't see any use for it at all)
4. The lack of scouts, give you the neophytes. They can come in handy. They are usually armed with a bolt pistol and close combat weapon, giving them extra attacks, and they can be used to double the size of your crusader squad. Although their equipment is limited, they can be worth taking.
5. The chaplains are very useful. Their crozius plus a higher ws, makes them deadly. Plus, like most, if not all, other space marine hqs, they have access to the armory. But, you will most likely always want a Marshal/Castellan as a main Hq.
6. Your troops will be on par, with many of the elites of other armies.
7. Black Templar lack strong heavy support back up. Though you can take some good tanks, you lack devestators, and whirlwinds. Use your tanks wisely.
8. Just get used to the army. Play a few games, and if your army seems to be lacking in an area, you will know where you might want to add or change something.
Last edited by Thunderbound; June 25th, 2008 at 03:14.
Hey! Look at the little.... Oh ****!
One tip that might be worth thinking about is the fact that as you have alluded to they are a close combat style army... as a result you would like to have your units set up as so, in short assault weapons and power weapons where possible in your units.
The beauty of BTs is the fact that you can have initiates in your squads! a full unit of 20 is a sight to behold and with 10 neophytes they work great as ablative armour for your intiates and are good at lending some help in assaults.
I find that the major weakness that BTs have is anti armour abilities within their troop choices so that is where your fast attack units like land speeders and attack bikes, as well as your heavy supprt tanks come in handy...
I've always found when using templars let the troops do the close combat work and let your fast attack units and your heavy support units deal with the things that your troops can't. Its a simple strategy that can work quite well...
Things like land raider crusaders are great for thinning numbers when you are facing horde armies... I love Vindicators as they are great when it comes to anything althoug they are short ranged.
If you can you should try and a unit or two into transports, too give yourself some mobility and the ability to be able to support areas in your battle line that are becoming weak.
There are just a few thoughts for you to think about. I hope that they help.
There is nothing more annoying when your Wyches with Plasma Grenades get "Always strikes First" for their combat drugs!
Check these gents out, especially their articles, they have some excellent stuff and pretty much cover every element of Space Marines and Black Templars.
"Luck often enough, will save a man, if his courage hold".