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This is an oldie and a goodie.
So lay your thoughts on the table. Why do you use melta instead of plasma - worried about the overheat? Prefer the tank busting ability of the melta?
Or why the other way around - like killing lots of terminators, don't really care about frying individual guardsmen in the process?
Do you run a smattering of both?
Or would you simply avoid using either? Grenade launchers and flamers good enough for you? If so, though - why?
And if you do prefer one of the two special weapons over the other, what kind of configuration do you use? (I'm kinda partial to 3 plasmas and a medic with an officer).
Do you think the cheesy veteran option actually is cheesy?
Anything and everything relevant should be written up guys - if you have an idea, voice it! If you disagree with someone, let 'em know why. Maybe we can all learn something...
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
With the new rules, there is little chance of overheating during rapid firing. You only overheat on 1s now. No more 1s and 2s.
Where the heck did all them guardsmen come from?
Great Wolf! Is that the howl of the 13th?
Out of those 2 I tend to use melta a bit more. Although bear in mind a couple of things.
1) Most of all I am a 'fluff' player. My armylists are generally rather fluffy and I am most definately a social player, I despise power gaming, min-maxing, plasma spam and tailoring lists to utterly annihilate one type of army. If you want to play paper-rock-scissors go ahead.
2) Most of the games I play are at the 1000pts size - time constraints are a pain sometimes.
3) Plasma guns are meant to be rare and sacred artefacts - not as common as muck. If you need plasma spam to win, I feel sorry for you.
So, I use melta more often than plasma - although it is still rare insofar as only 1 or 2 units will take it.
Plasma technology, in the 41st millenium, is meant to be rare and dangerous and something that isn't just lying about. To this end I use an absolute minimum in my armies (at least my guard army). It doesn't make any sense at all for there to be 9+ plasma guns in any army. Ad-Mech Skittarri or not it still isn't right.
More often than not I will use either a grenade launcher or melta because the squads that do get equipped like this are almost always on the move so the better range of the plasma gun over the melta is pointless. Sure one shot is sometimes annoying, but at least I'm not killing my own models, and when it does hit it most likely kills whatever - it is also handy at opportunistic tank hunting.
The most likely squad in my army to have one of the special weapons is my AF squad, so they have a reasonable threat range.
That being said, my favourite special weapon is still the grenade launcher - although this may change under 5th ed if what I read is true.
Dovie'andi se tovya sagain (It's time to roll the dice)- Mattrim Cauthon
I don't run doctrines but I still love infiltrating HV's and Stormies with meltas.
I like to drop in the stormies. Both groups go vehicle hunting and just generally stir stuff up.
I don't use plasma because I just haven't had very good luck with Getting Hot. My own rolls seem to do the squad in for my opponent. I still keep the models on hand though since I paid for them in the SW blister. Every once in a while I get a hair up my arse and run a squad of plamas. I tend toward fluffiness for my army as well so I treat them as relics of the regiment. The plasmas I sometimes run work as an honor guard for my Commanding Officer, as befits their rare nature. The medic helps offset my typically horrendous plasma rolls, but usually they are off the table during my own shooting phase.
Anyway, my preferred meltas do a nice job of taking focus off of my real weapons (my masses of lasguns and vehicles) by just being general nuisances behind enemy lines. They are much to powerful to ignore and every time they pull a frontline enemy squad back to deal with them, they assist in the winning of the real battle by the rest of the army.
And occasionally, they blow up something important or expensive.
It may not be the best use of points, but it is nice to fearlessly attempt to drop a squad of stormies on a landing area the size of a playing card or slide the vets in near the rear.
It puts a satisfyingly nervous look on the opponents face.
Except for when I play Space Wolves. They are always in such a hurry to get into CC, there is never anything in the rear to threaten.
So I just end up throwing them at Dreadnaughts and hoping for the best.
I have always had a love for plasma. The overheating and killing your own guys is fluffy for IG in my view. In combat, it really is a good catch all, especially since the gun has enough of a kick to kill vehicles with side or year armor.
Melta I usually go light on, maybe a squad, for heavy vehicle hunting. Too often though, my IG will miss their target.
Flamers and grenade launchers are ok, but IG really need something to crack those tough, elite shock units.
Both plasma and melta are pretty rare. Also, I feel the argument that plasma is sacred is a little out of date. GW went with that back in 3rd, but they've moved more towards an idea where technology isn't quite that stagnant. Also, in theory, I should have 1000 IG for every 10~20 marines out there. So I feel that it works itself out. If your enemy has 3 obliterators, or terminators, well they're bringing them because you probably have something nasty like plasma guns that would require armor that heavy, and vica versa.
I do think drop vet/IST spamming is a bit cheesy. I see guys do that for the basis of their army and I don't care for it. I just use my one full squad of drop vets and drop command squads. I do think it's cool to have suicide squads in an IG army. You always have those lone elite units who make or break the army in the movies, and drop units do that in game. But min/maxing it is just lame really.
Plasma will be even better in fifth ed. FnP will be ignored and less overheating. The only real strength I see for meltas is taking on what will be even tougher vehicles. (Pens will be much more important than a glance) However, if you can drop plasma behind a tank, you're just as good usually.
Last edited by Dr. Paris; June 24th, 2008 at 05:44.
By far the best vehicle for Plasmas are Stormtroopers - There's three units with BS4 that can take Plasmas / meltas - Stormtoopers, Veterans and Last Chancers.
Last Chancers are too expensive for plasma guns, especially since a suicide roll will destroy the sub unit (IMO), leaving Vets and Stormtroopers. Now, if you are getting one of these comparitavely expensive units you want to be sure it works, and make the possibility of it working again as good as possible.
I really advocate Meltas on Vets and plasmas on IST's. The stormtroopers armour gives them a distinct advantage on surviving a suicide roll, and the ret of their weaponry can't be tailored to suit meltas, unlike vets. (Keep rapid fire with rapid fire)
IST's with 2x plasmas are my marine killers / 2+ save killers, and I put Meltas on my vets to go tank hunting / Then be a brute vs infantry if i have to.
Another way of looking at it is that, to fit both in i go for grenadiers, have 3x squads with plasmas as my line troops (And they save!), and you can have your vets too. (Maybe one with a Heavy Weapon as well)
Adeptus Mechanicus Marines: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1655065
Plasma has longer range and is therefore better then meltaguns for line infantry (grenade launchers lack the punch to compete).
Plasma guns are the saving grace of my army, I find that the only other way to increase the killing power of infantry is to make a heavy weapon squad with sharp shooters
If i run suicicde units, i like to go veterans and drop troops doctrine. Then i deepstrike 2 min units of plasma vets, and 1 min melta vet.
I only include meltagun when i run suicide units, other then deep strikeing i just cant find another way to get units within the required range. (playing vs eldar mostly probably does not help either)
"Thank him who puts me loath to this revenge on you who wrong me not for him who wrongd"
I use both kinds of guns in different units.
My command squads take 2 meltas, making them a mobile support group. I also don't want to lose men from over heat in these important units.
STs and Vets switch between the two, but my STs usually take plasma and vets usually meltas.
My line units have plasma/missile, so they have good range and armor pen. capability.
I agree with statements about the tech being rare and I have accounted for that with my army's fluff. My guard regiment is albut permanently requistioned by the Inquition and the army corps was founded to meet Inq. needs. Due to this relationship and the corps' renoun, the regiments are exceptionally well armed.
"...and thee shall know the Emperor's might when thy enemies fall before thy guns. No crude Orkish blade can pierce thy anointed armor, nor any twisted alien resist the sting of thy sword." ~Major Kaelen Rhodes
As with most IG infantry weapons, both are very situational. The way I break it down is like this:
1) Strength- Both have high strength values, making wounds easier to dish out. The melta gets that extra point though, and can insta-kill most infantry, as well as the ability to hurt the toughest armor even without the melta rule. Plasma guns are still capable of damaging armor with a fair chance of success, especially with good tactics.
2) Range and # of shots- Plasma has the advantage here, but only just. The extra range is somewhat offset by the Rapid Fire nature of the gun. Meltas will always get to shoot if you're in range. Plus due to the melta rule, shorter range is an advantage in some situations.
3) Points- Even. Both are worthwhile investments in any army.
4) AP- Both have low enough AP to deny armor saves. Meltas get the advantage against armor though.
5) Other- Plasma guns can kill the operator. Normally not that big a deal, but it can be frustrating. Meltas have the Melta rule (duh), but requires extremely short range to work at full effect.
6) Overall- Each can be used in similar situations. Plasma guns are better at dealing with tough infantry despite not being able to insta-kill marines. Meltas are clearly better at dealing with enemy armor. Plasma guns can kill their operators, Meltas require you to get close enough to spit on the squad you want to kill. A mix of the two (two squads, each carrying a different gun) seems to be the best option here.
I don't take a lot of Plasma in my gunline simply because I (like a few other people here) would rather play with a higher fluff to function ratio. My mechanized list packs a few of each.
This debate is a lot like the Missile Launcher (or Heavy Bolter) vs. Autocannon arguement.
Last edited by SimulatedSnowman; June 24th, 2008 at 18:03.
I think you need to spend more time on your floor.
2500 Black Templars