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My loyal brothers I have just recieved news that the forces of chaos have got together and are plotting against us (they have a thread for the soul purpose of beating space marines).
How can we let the traitors gain any advantage on us, the true sons of the emperor must retaliate, this thread will focus entirely on space marines tactics against chaos?
Because of their versatility with different fake gods this will be a difficult journey but we are space marines we like it that way?
Post any tips or tactics for battling the forces of chaos?
lets shoot dem
We must be more specific than shoot them, what are their advantages, what guns to take, what to avoid that sort of stuff.
They believe that they have an advantage in close combat is that so? If so how do we turn that into an advantage for us if not post why not?
Go to the chaos section and see how serious they are about ways to beat us.
I've seen the thread in the Chaos Space Marine section of the forum, and they've already highlighted where they're superior and we're weaker.
Simply put, loyalist Space Marines are generally superior at shooting, and Chaos Space Marines are generally superior in close combat.
While there are obviously exceptions, this is the general truth between the two armies.
To that end, I suggest massing up on plasma and other low AP weapons, supplemented by counter-charging assault squads.
My own tactics involve taking three tactical squads, two devastator squads and two assault squads.
Tacticals are maxed out, armed with plasma gun and plasma cannon. One squad of devastators are armed with lascannons, the other with plasma cannons, both are much smaller with only seven or so members. Assault squads are maxed as standard, but I leave off the jump packs, since my tactics don't actually involve them running around. They do take furious charge though.
My HQ choices are a force commander, minimally armed with power weapon, storm shield, and Terminator Honors while my Chaplain is armed with the standard angrly close combatness.
The strategy is simple. Stand and shoot. When they get to the inveitable close combat, have the assault squads counter charge. Until then, keep them out of sight and out of mind. Try to get the tactical squads to absorb the brunt of fire as much as possible. This is, oddly enough though, my overall strategy for all things, so meh. Your mileage may vary, but this usually blows my foe to bits.
Fighting Chaos Space Marines is similar to fighting fellow brother Marines; low ap is the name of the day.
But really, I think the best advice could be gleamed from the Chaos Space Marines section of the forum as the best way to fight the enemy is to know the enemy.
As for close combat oriented armies, I haven't got much to tell you. I just spam tactical squads with furious charge with bolt pistol/chainsword combination and try to win by sheer number of Marines. Needless to say, this usually ends up with a draw between myself and the opposing chaos player, but hey; I like the marine rush.
I tend to have better luck against Chaos playing my Grey Knights though, but that's a whole other ball game.
PS, my Tactical and Devastator squads have Powerfists, but my assault squads have power swords. And hug cover like stink on a warthog.
Last edited by Sayomi Akimoto; July 9th, 2008 at 04:52. Reason: Knowledge is Power, Seed it Well.
Sayomi excellent post shining example of what the post should look like
It seems that our advantage over them is shooting with high strength low ap weapons.
Sayomi I would love for you to make a post about the importance of location with the devestator squads that seems to be a major concern for the traitors(I dont use devestator).
The first thing as a space marine player facing chaos is to ask who they are representing they usually will tell you with some cursed tongue such as blood for the blood god or something of that nature. Depending on what they say should determine how you play them. Their are several different styles so any post of successful tactics against dealing with Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, and Tzeentch will be appreciated.
Traits is a major concern with this thread because of the versatility, it makes it harder for us to share strategies. So just list what makes your space marine chapter successful against chaos.
My chapter uses purity above all and take the fight to them. My list tries to weaken the enemy to the point that I can beat them in close combat. I also distract the chaos players from focusing on the tact squads. I try to make the take squads as versatile as possible.
An example of one of the tact squads
8xMarines Plasma cannon,plasma gun apothecary powerfist 3 with bolt pistol and cc
This is the basic setup this allows my tact squad to cause some damage from afar and still be effective when its time to fight.
I distract the chaos forces with 2 land raiders one of each kind, 2 squads of land speeders, and a infiltrating command squad.
The land raiders take most of the big gun fire they also provide fire power and block line of sight. A moving crusader and stationary land raider is alot of points but with 5th edition they are worth it plus it goes with my fluff. Dont forget spirit of the machine can shoot one extra weapon per turn so use that other twin-link lascannon or the multi melta while on the move.
The land speeders are simply amazing vs chaos. I luse my land speeders like a mobile devestator. One squad has 3 land speeders with 2 Land Speeder typhoons and one normal.This setup eats up chaos squads with a range of 36 and their speed I make any path towards my tact squads difficult and they really weaken the squad.
Then I have 2 land speeders with multi-meltas which are tank, daemon, and obilerator hunters. I find that you should give this unit a goal to destroy a target and stick with it untill they have the job done with their movement you can easily get within 12 to roll the 2d6 vs vehicles.
The infiltrating command squad has 2 melta-guns and cc and bps lead by chaplain. Poor squad it usually gets blasted to pieces but every blue moon they get to wreck havoc but they do their job which is to distract.
Thats how I play everyone and specifically thats how I play chaos. Chaos are better than us in close combat so just weaken their squad to five or six than if you charge them you should be able to win.
I find that 90 percent of the time I play someone with chaos, they're either Death Guard or Khorne.
Death Guard are rough with FNP, but that is getting a nerf in 5th. They always have just as much high STR low AP weapons as SM can field. 2 per squad usually. And they can move with them and fire (plasma + melta, melta + melta, etc.) Against them, I use mobility, speeding away whenever I can to stay out of those assault gun range. Then they're just marching at you like zombies while you pepper them with fire. Long fight sure, but you don't have much of choice vs death guard.
Khorne are usually: Demon Prince, wings, deamon weapon. Zerkers. Raptors. And armor. The main unit is the zerker though, and they'll start running in 5th. I wouldn't reccomend ever getting into CC with khorne. If you think you can static gun line them go for it, otherwise I'd say match them for transport and play keep away.
I guess overall I say against chaos, no matter what you play, stay back, as chaos tend to get their groove on between 24" and CC.
Well, I suppose I could do all of the above.
I can see why Traitors would be fearful of the Devastator squad; its ability to haul around four heavy weapons, one of which is the fearful plasma cannon, allow it to destroy ridiculous amounts of MEQ from long range. Few other units in the chaos list can effectively destroy this unit fast enough to prevent catastrophic damage. The units that can do this are rarely taken. Even so, in cover they're still rather difficult to kill.
My own shooty chapter uses the trait that gives assault/tactical squads furious charge (Silly me, I forgot the name) I only dump it onto the assault squads though. My drawback is "Display thy colors" or whatever such is called.
I deploy my Devastators in a manner that would best cover multiple firing arcs, and deploy my tactical squads in front of them to act as a shield of sorts. Behind the Tactical squad is an assault squad with its attached Librarian/Chaplain, ready to spring out when the lines eventually do crash.
Thus, it goes:
Of course, terrain must be taken into account as well. I'll change it up sometimes, putting the Tactical and Assault squads in more lucrative positions as bait, rather than as a shield.
In addition, they're deployed in a split deployment manner, which you can read about in the tactics section of the forum.
I would like to let ya'll know that this is my standard deployment and how I fight all of my foes so I'm not too sure that this would count as a chaos only tactic.
To sum it up, the Devastator is the core of the army. They kill the brunt of the opposing force, everyone else just acts to support them. The Tactical squad is in place to act as a charge barrier, while the assault squad is to act as a counter-charge. By virtue of Khornate attacks, there is also a very good chance that the Tactical squad will be completely anihilated, which is where the assault squad serves another purpose of acting as a second shield.
Khornate Chaos armies will find themselves being blown away by massed plasma cannon fire. Don't ever let them get close enough to poke you with a stick; if they do, try and get the charge off. If not, take it in cover. Who knows, you might get lucky and have them roll horribly on their difficult terrain test.
Death Guard armies will find their feel no pain negated by lascannon fire. Even so, their toughness usually means that they're acting as a shield for something that you should worry about more than they.
I treat Slanneshi armies like faster Khorne armies.
Thousand sons armies usually just find themselves outnumbered and are kind of grounded into the dirt by superior fire. I envy them, as they are capable of moving fire with a constant save. But, they pay for this constant save and ability to lay down fire. Take advantage of this by concentrating fire one at a time, every single loss hurts far more than a single loss to your own. In addition, this is one of the few chances I take to act offensively; assault squads (Hugging cover, as always) will position themselves in a manner in which they can assault. Thousand Sons suck in close combat. I'm sorry.
Always remember, if you can trade one of your Space Marines for one of their Marines, do it; theirs are always more expensive. Use the cheapness of our men (Relatively) to your advantage. Even your HQ is probably cheaper than his/hers/it's. This is only on a one to one basis, and there are always exceptions. Use your better judgement, generally the above is the case.
As with any shooty army fire selection is exceptionally important. The fast ones always die first. Always. Raptors, Defilers, anything with fleet, transports, etc.
Terrain is always your friend and enemy. Deploy in it, then use the terrain in no man's land to herd your foe to you. Due to the high AP death, most attackers will be moving through as heavy terrain as possible. This will probably block line of sight and provide a cover save. But, it does three helpful things: 1. The enemy is moving through an area that can be proliferated with dakka. Shoot enough and that 4+ save will do nothing. 2. It slows them down, which means more turns of fire. 3. It highlights the opposing player's own long range units, who have probably deployed in a manner to allow them to see you. Theirs are inferior to your own, as you've put more emphasis on shooting then they. Shoot back.
Vehicles help in this manner of warfare, as they can act as mobile walls, to yet again, goad the enemy out into the open or deny lines of fire. Rhinos are pefect for this.
Should the Devastators be destroyed, I'd be in quite the pickle. Oh well.
Remember, think tactical marines!
Now I'm just rambling.
By the way, has anyone had any experience with shooty Chaos Space Marine armies? The most shooty Chaos Space Marines throw my way are anti-tank weaponry. The angry close combat units are what I primarily deal with.
Last edited by Sayomi Akimoto; July 9th, 2008 at 08:59. Reason: Grammar is F***ing awesome
Posts like this make me loose faith in humanity.
If this is all you have to say, then I strongly suggest not posting.
Everyone else, this thread is looking great!
What was suggested in the Chaos forum, was a step by step tactica against every race, working systematically.
I'll give you help with stickies and thread links if you want to organise something similar.
LO RulesOriginally Posted by AnonymousOriginally Posted by Cyric
Great thread everyone keep up the good work and I like the way people are explaining how they use their units .
To summarize what I have learn from this thread is
1. Take advantage of high strength and low ap guns
2. Avoid close combat if possible
3. Deployment and terrain is very important
The three things seem to be easy but accomplishing these things against a vet chaos player is hard. The post that have been made goes into detail of how to successfully achieve these things.
One thing I have notice is that
Its very rare that you find a shooty chaos list, because of their lack of fire power their list usually will have 1 or 2 units dedicated to either anti-tank or anti-personal purposes. If you can identify and take out those units early you will most likely have an advantage in shooting for the rest of the game.
I use land speeders for this,I do not have any experience with devestator squads but i am sure they are good at getting rid of those units aswell. I do however have experience with land speeders.
The chaos players hate their speed and versatility I use my 2 typhoons and one regular as one unit. This unit can take out those Havoc squads with ease(be warned my land speeders do not recieve much resistance because of 2 land raiders and an infiltrating squad as distractions if your opponnent sees the land speeder as one of the main threats in your list they will try to focus their fire power on the land speeders). If this is the case you can use their speed and their range of 36 to help keep them alive. The longer this unit stays around the stronger they become and for 190 you get a mobile devestator squad that cause major damage to chaos troops and havoc squads.
I also use 2 land speeders with multi-meltas. I called this unit "Analysis Paralysis" because i dont know what I want to use them for first so i just think of scenarions untill the opponent says can you go already . (I usually have a certain task for them but because of situations they end up doing other things) This unit can be used to get rid of their shooty units, especially the obliterators and tanks. These 2 vehicles cost 130 and do so many things for me.
1.Tank Hunter (their movement can get you a side shot with 2d6 easy)
2.Monstrous creature Hunter
3.I like to use them as an assault weapon before a charge two multi-meltas and a few bolt pistol shots can usually get you 1 or 2 unsaved wounds before the charge into the often powerful chaos.
4.Chip away at that one unit worth 300 plus points. Two multi-melta shots each turn on one squad is something that I use that really weakens their favorite units.
5.Help any tactical squad on the board because of their speed and two strength 8 ap 1 shots.
(I interupt this post because I just got the 5th edition rulebook )
I was going to tell how I use the land raiders aswell but with this breaking news I must read. So hopefully next time we meet I will have some cool ideas for 5th edition to take out the traitor legions in this new era