Infantry Platoons in 5th Edition - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20
  1. #1
    Member Guaardvark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    84
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    24 (x1)

    Infantry Platoons in 5th Edition

    Putting aside all of the rumors of things that might be included in the future Guard Codex but taking into account some of the new things in 5th Edition, I want to get some feedback on how other players are using or are planning to use their basic infantry platoons. Not Conscripts or Iron Fist, no Vets, Stormies or anything else that might be considered 'infantry" but the actual standard Infantry Platoon as described in the Codex.

    I have heard it said that these units are the backbone of this army choice, but it seems as though most players use them as a background unit and utilize other specialized units for specific tasks in game.

    For example: Rough Riders to assault Terminators, Basilisks to bombard tough units that are hiding out of sight, or Sentinels as mobile anti-armor platforms.

    Where do platoons fit in? What are your opinions on the role (or roles) of the infantry platoon with all of the possible doctrines, add ons, upgrades, advisors, wargear and other factors thrown in.
    With only platoons, conscripts, and iron fist squads (and grenadiers with a doctrine point) able to capture objectives it is essential to get as much out of these units as possible. Insomuch as you cannot take conscripts or iron fist squads without first taking a regular platoon it seems pertinent to first discuss the platoon.

    So which way do you go? Horde of shooting with Sharpshooters? Light Infantry to infiltrate and move faster to objectives? Cyber-Enhancement to make all of your units unbeatable (right?)?

    "No dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You win a war by making the other dumb bastard die for his country." General George S. Patton, Jr.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Consumate professional Sir Theobold the Lame's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Chester uk
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,863
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    280 (x8)

    I think that in 5th edition, using the current codex (assuming that the new 'dex will change the way IG play with doctrines etc) I will be taking a greater amount of infantry squads than I would have done previously, at least two platoons with a total of 8 or 9 infantry squads- keeping them cheap by foregoing upgrades and doctrines that cost points (Close Order drill may become my favourite!) and maybe having a greater amount of squads without heavy weapons to make them more manouverable and thus able to take objectives.
    PLAN CLAN MAN!!

    He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man- S. Johnson

  4. #3
    Hellhounds are good tanks Dakka,Dakka,Dakka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    733
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    41 (x2)

    Infantry platoons are both everything, in a guard army, yet nothing if alone

    take a guard army, let the player take everything except infantry platoons, and see how many times his army gets overrun

    your infantry platoons

    1-slow the enemy down when he assaults

    2-lay out more firepower than any other choice

    3-be the most versatile choice in the army

    4-has tons of bodies, and makes it longer before you run out of men

    5-is the only choice that can win a game without any other choice present

    6-It's the best troop choice in 40K(if you have the points)

    a infantry platoon is what makes the imperial guard, guard.
    Hellhounds are good tanks

    Satan - "**** you Kage! And **** you Jables! I'll get you Tenacious DDDDdddddddeeeeee!!!!!!"

  5. #4
    Senior Member mareo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Age
    43
    Posts
    319
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    30 (x1)

    I disagree:

    1 - Is just a bunch of squads on the same unit slot.

    2 - Is 3 to 6 kill points compared to the single kill point of the Conscript Platoon.

    3 - Have less flexibility and power than a Command Platoon.

    4 - The only good thing is that give 3 to 6 scoring units compared to the single unit of the Conscript Platoon.

    For me, aside of provide scoring units is just an excuse for deploy Chimeras with the Mechanized Doctrine.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Intrepid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Central California
    Age
    38
    Posts
    4,800
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    780 (x8)

    Well, my initial plans based on what I've seen and heard:

    Now that the Russ is critically vulnerable to CC, I plan to start using line squads to bodyguard them.

    I will go ahead and line my men up to shoot through each other. Not only is the enemy likely to have a cover save anyway (if not power armor), but the multi-target charge tactic is now officially sanctioned, so I don't want the enemy able to reach more than one squad at a time.

    Leadership will become a serious issue. In the games I've seen, it is difficult to completely block a true LOS, so we'll be taking more fire than previously, particularly if our troops need to advance up the field.

    I am strongly considering going from a missile launcher/melta loadout to a lascannon/flamer one. There are too many saves for a missile launcher or plasmagun to be worth the while, but the lascannon can tankhunt while the flamer does followup on enemy charges.


    In general I expect people to run more bare-bones line platoons. The survivability of the average Joe has gone down quite a bit, plus we can't bury heavy weaons in the squads as well as previously, all of which means more hordes of grunts to compensate.
    "My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard

  7. #6
    Member Guaardvark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    84
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    24 (x1)

    It is my opinion that while other armies may be able to evaluate the worth of their infantry as a stand alone component, a Guard commander must view his footsloggers in their overall role in the force.

    While a Space Marine, Choas, Necron, or Demon commander may look at his troops choices and see units that without support are powerhouse squads all by their lonesome a Guard commander cannot.

    I think some Guard players buy into the fluff from the codex a bit too much and come away convinced that through sheer force of numbers via infantry models that they will be able to crush any army before them. A little simple math and/or a few hundred games actually played will show you otherwise. Remember, in the game you dont get to overwhelm your opponent with more points - just more models in some cases. At the end of the day, we all still go head to head against equal points value armies. Points to points, guard infantry dont stack up very well. They can in fact win a battle for you and will do so...

    It is possible, but dont base your strategy for victory on it.

    From long experience being involved in this game I can say that a good commander will not use strategies that rely on luck but on probability. A little luck never hurts though. The probability is that mere guard infantry will not be enough to overwhelm a foe. But they can be an intergal part of achieving that feat.

    The guard must, above all other armies, have a true synthesis between the various elements they bring to bear on the battlefield. The role of infantry can be varied, but in many ways they are there to allow the other more specialized units to do their job. They are invaluable in this way.

    A great example of this synthesis can be found in a tactic that will be essential to guard in 5th Edition games. With the new assault rules, tanks are quite a bit more vulnerable to enemy close combat but are quite resilient against shooting due to some tweaks to shooting and cover rules. As a result, you may find yourself advancing a tank in front of infantry across open terrain in order to shield them from incoming fire - but then having that same infantry turn the tables and protect the tank from incoming assaults.

    The key is, dont hang your infantry out to dry with an unreasonable expectation of their abilities. Also, dont expect your high priced specialty units to win the game alone without utilizing the infantry as support.

    In real world modern warfare it is the role of armor, air support, artillery, special forces, and intelligence to win objectives. It is the job of the infantry to support those other platforms in the aquisition and then to hold those objectives.

    Its no different 40,000 years in the future.
    Last edited by Guaardvark; July 10th, 2008 at 01:25.
    "No dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You win a war by making the other dumb bastard die for his country." General George S. Patton, Jr.

  8. #7
    Hellhounds are good tanks Dakka,Dakka,Dakka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    733
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    41 (x2)

    Guaardvark- your wrong, you can have a successful guard army, only using infantry.

    drop troops can get away with all infantry

    light infantry armies, have only basalisk, or no vehicular support

    guard is one of the only forces that can pull off a infantry only army.

    actually guard is the most versatile army in 40k, you can do anything you want and still be reasonably effective.

    you keep saying that a infantry platoon cannot support itself, but it can, not really well, but reasonably well

    here is a example for you

    the command squad provides leadership, and gives a reasonable counterassault unit

    squad 1 is dedicated to killing infantry(heavy bolter+grenade launcher or plasmagun)

    squad 2 is dedicated to heavy infantry, and skimmers(plasma gun+autocannon

    squad 3 is dedicated to anti tank(lascannon/Missile launcher+plasma gun

    squad 4 is multi role, killing tanks and then infantry(missile launcher+grenade launcher/plasma gun

    squad 5 is either mobile, or another anti infantry. if mobile, it will have a special weapon, and either a heavy bolter or missile launcher, if stationary, it will have a plasmagun/grenade launcher, and a autocannon/heavy bolter

    this is a example, but this single infantry platoon, can deal with a tank or 2, or a squad or 2 of heavy infantry, or 1 or 2 horde squads, and think about it, it deals with many other units than itself, the only problem with infantry platoons is they get to be expensive.
    Hellhounds are good tanks

    Satan - "**** you Kage! And **** you Jables! I'll get you Tenacious DDDDdddddddeeeeee!!!!!!"

  9. #8
    Set Sail and Conquer! Cadaver Junkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Melbourne
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,633
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    301 (x7)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guaardvark View Post

    It is possible, but dont base your strategy for victory on it.
    I'm going to have to disagree with you there mate. Easily, the strongest IG armies are almost purely infantry.

    Combining drop troops with some infiltrating units in order to combat the low movement of a footslogger (which will be less of a problem in 5th ed), makes for a fast reacting, large numbers powerhouse of an army, one that denies the effectiveness of all your opponents tank hunting weapons.

    Haven't lost a game in over a year, with all infantry IG army lists...

    And in 5th ed, these guardsmen are scoring to the last man (or at least can dispute objectives in the case of stormtroopers and vets), they all have 'run', they will get a plethora of cover saves, can all either deepstrike OR flank OR setup normally (if you choose the right doctrines), and don't suffer from '1 shot kill' syndrome like a tank. Kill points might be an issue, but we'll see how that pans out in a few weeks.

    Don't get me wrong, IG tanks are AWESOME. Its just that many of the strongest IG armies don't rely on them for anything.
    Last edited by Cadaver Junkie; July 10th, 2008 at 07:34.
    "Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"

    Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.

  10. #9
    Senior Member mareo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Age
    43
    Posts
    319
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    30 (x1)

    1 - On 5th ed. We face the benefit of many scoring units and the handicap of to many kill points. The logic say that we need to raise the number of scoring units and lower the number of kill points. The objetive is the closest to a 1 scoring unit per every kill point ratio. Infantry Platons, Conscript Platons, Armoured Fists and Grenadiers are the core of the force. In Blood Bowl words, they are the Ball.

    2 - In a battle for control the objetives. A Droop Troop Infantry Squad is the faster way of grab objetives. But sound very weak on a kill points battle because for defend the objetives alone the infantry need great numbers.

    3 - If we can deploy 3 Conscript Platoons with out buying 3 Infantry Platons first, we are near invencible.

    4 - In a control objetives is enough that they stay alive in the objetive. In a kill points is enough that they stay alive. Protect our balls and kick the oponent balls (pun intended). They can take an ofensive rol, but I think that their rol is defensive and in cover.

    5 - What I try to say is that fluff say that IG victory is based on destroy the enemy with the sacrifice of infantry units, but in 5th ed rules, victory is about control objetives with infantry or lose less units than the enemy.
    Last edited by mareo; July 10th, 2008 at 10:33.

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    248
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    30 (x1)

    As a couple of others have picked up on 5th Ed generally seems to boost Guard simply due to making scoring units troops only, opening up more LOS for firing and no consolidating in combat. I actually believe Imperial Guard are quite weak in 4th Ed, and that is said both as a Guard player and someone who faces Guard.

    When it comes to both objective based games Guard can really put their numbers and high number of scoring units into play (my low Infantry Guard list has 7 scoring choices). Where Guard players will really need to think hard and play tactically is Kill Points.
    I have a scarily large 19KP in my Guard army, and the average army is going to have a much lower number. Units like min-size suicide Storm Troopers, sacrificial command squads are going to be a real liability.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

LinkBacks (?)


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts