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It takes me a while to get to the point, bare with me!
Iíve got a head acke off 5th ed.
On one hand I do actually like the look of many of the rules, heck nearly all are great, but as a GK player they have just shifted the goal posts on a ruined pitch.
Also where the hell is our background section (even the page showing which codexs to buy doesnt show the DH,WH dexs ) 5 year plan, pff. Rants put on hold I promise.
For any regulars to this section some may remember a list I posted about a month ago, to summarise:
A shooty =][= Lord build
2 Platoons of guard w/heavy weapons
2 Squads of ISTs w/Cim/Rhino/Melta/Plasma
1 Leman Russ
Taking a long hard look at this list it seemed perfect pre 5th but post it has some major issues.
1) Assassins are nerfed all the way to Hades and back. My once CC nightmare/distraction force is now a 335 point sink hole.
2) With the new wound allocation rules I think =][= lord builds are more vulnerable but they will nearly always get a 4+ cove save so it balances out abit.
3) Iím a GK player through and through and would love to play pure GK, this was an attempt at an inquisitorial list but with all the changes id have to make it becomes a GUARD LIST with an inquisitor, the one thing I wanted to avoid!
The only good thing I can mention is that I hardly bought any of the list (bout 20 quidís worth ($40))
Sorry guys but 30 PAGK, 1 BC, 3 ML/TLLC is just plain boring no matter how effective it is. So to that effect Iím now going to stop even trying to play pure GK and go back to my fun and effective SM w/GK allies.
The reasoning behind this is quite simple really:
1) I own nearly all the models required to make 1500pts of SM and 1000pts of GK so only the odd model will need to be bought.
2) SM (GWs love child) is getting its new rules soon which will help with GKs lack there off. Hell I might even wait for SWs new dex and ally my GK with some space puppies.
So to summarise there will be a new thread with a new and improved army list posted soon (i'm at work atm) but I would love to hear any comments with regard to the above comments. Also any ideas with how to go about building a SM/GK list (my last 1 didnt have much in the way of troops unless you count two 5 man scout squads as all GK and GKT deep striked).
To hell with the consiquences of posting what is sort of a SM list here its just a GK list in disguise ... honest!
You show two lists, both of which are extremes.. of course you're going to have challenges...
I play Big shooty =][=, eversor, 20 IST, 30 GK's, 3 Rhinos and 3 Dreads as my tournament DH force and never have a problem, even with the new 5th edition. Actually I've had less trouble with them now that we have the fifth edition.
I took out 170 something orks the other day and only lost 20 IST's...
WHY? because its a balanced list.
Sure I have lists with no GK's or only Gk's, but they are always going to have a lot harder times and I almost expect to lose
Leave your marines for the arse-tarts, the Daemon Hunters need no help from the impure.
PS. I too was annoyed at the Inquisition being left out of the BGB... esp when my friend answers that they are included in the Space Marines and Imperial Guard... I almost slapped him!!
Last edited by Lord Lucias; July 14th, 2008 at 12:28.
Yhea i suppose ive listed a big swing from an inquisitorial list to a pure GK list to a SM/GK list so theres big changes to be had there.
Just 3 points on ur list.
1) Its illegal to take dreds without a GK hero.
2) Is ur =][= and retinue a 10 man squad? Otherwise its ilegal to take the 3rd rhino.
3) I take it its a 1750 pts at least (i dont play tornies so not sure whats required).
Not meaning to pee on ur parade but army list building is my fav part of the hobby and i can be a stiffler for rules.
Still i quite like the look of ur list and since the things i bought were ISTs its no big loos if i buy more GKs
*steals army list*
Sowry for the double post but im posting the quick mock up of an army list in the army list section if any1 wants a gander.
Oh true the GK hero thing... okay forgot about that may have to lose a dread and gain a GK hero and some psycannons :/
As for Inquisitor, its if your Inquisitor and retinue number ten models or less... and no they don't actually use the rhino its for the GKs. (though in the last game i forgot he had one and left it off the field )
Yeah my list is 2000pt... I know more official tournaments around here are 1850 or 1700 but all I play is 2000pt games normally.
I'll check out your list
The rules state that if a squad is too big u cant buy xx vehical. ie a 10 man SM squad cannt buy a razorback. Point being if ur =][= lord + retinue = more than 10 models u cant buy a rhino. Only for Land raiders/falcons and there ilk which are an actual FOC slot choices can u then decide what goes in em.
Still, could be wrong.
And why dont you use inuiqisitorial+Gk?
Adapting to not using assassins is not as easy as most people would think, as probably now bulking up on much need troop choices would be a better idea anyway.
Marines would be reall nice if you could add some of that manuverability like bikes or jump infantry or maybe even Land Speeders.
I might write like a ork but i fight like a poet.
Some one tell me they have ever seen a nightbringer die from a Nemesis Force Weapon.
Supposidly there is a five year plan in that all dexs will be re done in acordence with 5th ed. Starting with SM then SW then IG after xmas. DE and Necrons are due next year then it will proberly be tau and mabye nids. Regardless im not expecting an =][= dex till around the xmas of 2010.
Drop the assassins, they arent anywhere near as a good as they used to be in 5th ed due to consolidation rules and CC counter charge rules.
While the russ looks appealing you cant move and shoot it. Without the russ id definatly drop the Guard aswell.
2 Dreads are better AT now as they can move and shoot and are more surviveable now, you'll need to take a GK hero to do this however, id drop the =][= to elite and take his full 6 retinue for shooting.
Then you'll want to decide if you want more IST's or some PAGK units in there, I favour PAGK's myself but I have used a squad of IST's in a chimera previously which worked well. I would however not take a Melta/Plasma, take both of one so you can target specific things. 1 units with 2 plasmas and the other with 2 meltas would work well.
For 1750 I can fit GM + 4 GKT's, 3 x 10 PAGKS, 1 x 10 IST's w/ Plasmas in a Chimera w/ Multi-laser and HB and 2 Dreads. I believe this would work reasonably in all mission in 5th ed, but im yet to play it (Im busy playing my new Tau army insted).