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Was just wanting some feed back on a grand master steup I am thinking about.
Master crafted Nemesis force weapon
Icon of the just
So 6 attacks on the charge with re rolls, or the ability to take out walkers or monstrous creatures. Pretty resilliant with 2+/4++ and bionics. Can take part in the shooting phase with Assualt D6.
What do you guys think.
Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, not actually an army list so was not sure where to put it.
The entire setup depends on your play style mainly, obviously you want a CC monster and that setup does make one nasty character. Team him up with a unit of GKT and not much will be able to stand up to it in HtH. Also for CC troops you don't want to foot slog or deep strike them because you have a high risk of losing them either way so put him in a LRC if you have the points.
I dont normaly use my GKT in CC in most cases because I run a group with two psycannons and stay at around 36 inches, hide with the shrouding, and shoot my opponents up no matter what style their army is.
Honestly, I'm going to quote the above poster, but not from his post.. instead, with his name. 'Meh.' You're stacking way too many items onto an already very expensive (and deadly) model. You're giving him a Chain Fist - which, to be honest, is not going to be very good against Monstrous Creatures. Keep in mind that he has a S6 Force Weapon, and that most Monstrous Creatures these days tend to be around T6, giving him a very good chance to completely annihilate those MC's using only his NFW. It also allows him to strike in Initiative order, and against most common MC's, he should strike either first or on par with them. As for Walkers, he'll toast them using his NFW.
Also, you can't give him Frag grenades, as he is wearing Terminator Armour. The only upgrade that I can see any use in that you've given him is the Icon of the Just, and even that may or may not be needed. I think the setup you have there is very inefficient, especially when compared to the already-expensive standard Grand Master, who is already a killing machine. I'd use the points elsewhere in the army, especially if you are going pure Grey Knights - you should be getting as many GK into that army as you can, not spending all your points on upgrades that likely won't do very well in the actual game.
Hope this helps!
Thanks for the points guys, but I don't really understand how you can say he is an inefficient use of points. Just look at other chrarcters out there. Mephiston, Dante, Abaddon, Typhus etc etc.
Yeah frag was a mistake I had an idea of how the model would look with frag assault launchers on the back of the chain fist. Whoops
Also I am not sure what you mean about a S6 weapon owning walkers. When I say walkers I am refering to dreads and the likes, not sentinels or anythng. And S6 versus AV12 just does not work. And what about monstrous creatures above T6 such as the wraith lord for example. S6 v T8 not great.
Thanks for the points though I just don't agree with some of what you said.
Honestly, if you're planning on throwing your Grand Master at a (half as pricey) Dreadnought (or equivalent Walker), you're just asking for him to get toasted. Sure, his S6 isn't fantastic against AV12, but what makes you think his Initiative 1 (from the Chain Fist) will do any better? Keep in mind that you'll be heavily relying on that 4+ invulnerable save to save him from getting instant killed, which is a 50/50 chance of your Grand Master dying outright to every single one of the Dreadnought's attacks, and that's before he even gets a chance to hit it himself.
As for a Wraithlord, I would honestly prefer a 5/6+ roll with a Force Weapon (amounting to the possibility of a single hit kill) instead of, again, risking Instant Death to simply have a 4+ chance to wound. Keep in mind that you'll be needing to roll that 4+ to wound three separate times in order to outright kill the Wraithlord, where you need a potential of one wound caused to take him out using a Force Weapon.
Bionics won't help, as I'm pretty sure attacks that ignore armour in combat also ignore Bionics, so those are just soaking up even more points. He just isn't efficient in points.
I've gotta agree with LN, here. The GM is already dead-killy, and the amount you're spending on him doesn't really enhance him all that much. Your version costs a full 100 points more than a stock GM! Imagine if there was an upgrade that gave him two extra wounds an extra 4 Thunder-Hammer attacks in addition to his existing attacks, and it only cost you 92 points. Surprisingly enough, he does! It's called a retinue =). For about the same cost, you can get your GM two extra GKTs to fight with him, which in my opinion is a much better use of the points. You can give one or both of them the Thunder-Hammer + Storm Shield combo to safeguard against Walkers and Monstrous Creatures. With the new casualty-removal rules, they Hammers can't be isolated by strategic casualty removal anymore, so they're even more attractive =).
My two cents, anyways.
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Also wanted to throw in, Power Fists (and by extension, Chain Fists and Thunder Hammers) do not get a bonus attack in close combat for having two weapons, unless the second weapon is a Power Fist as well. So he'll have one less attack than you think (if you're taking that into account!).
So ok fair points being made I think. Well here is an alternative
Master Crafted Nemesis force weapon
Combi Melta + psycannon bolts
Icon of the Just
So now I can attack dreads at S8 and maintain initative, same with wraithlords and I even benefit from 1 xtra attack, or as you say use the nemesis force weapon.
I use the icon of the just because I just can't see a grand master without one. It may only be a 5++ to a 4++ but that is effectively an extra 17% chance of survival. (33% v 50%) He is also now about 30 points cheaper
Hmm, well overall the build is better, but I think the combi-melta is a potential waste right now. First of all, the Grand Master is a combat machine; every turn he isn't in combat is a waste of his potential, so you need to be doing everything you can to get him into combat, and that includes utilizing the "Run" rule, which effectively kills his chance of shooting the combi-melta. Plus, I'm not sure if he's allowed to have it (as he is in Terminator armour), though I'd have to double check that one.
The Hammerhand idea has some merit, but honestly there are better ways to take out Dreadnoughts, including anti-tank weaponry (hello to your own Dreadnoughts) and the aforementioned (by Hasten) Thunder Hammer equipped GKT if you're running a squad of them. I've never been a fan of Master Crafted, either, as it's just a single reroll, and you're already putting a ton of points into him; I think you'll find that the single reroll per turn doesn't really add up to much in the long run.
A better build overall, but not something that I would see worth it in the long run, compared to a bog standard Grand Master with an Icon of the Just.
I have always found a GM to be best with just one of the following, psycannon if you are gonna footslog across the field and want some extra fire power, or holocaust / hammerhand if you want a CC monster (best if in a LR/LRC and/or with a squad).
Also I use to hate Bro-Captain Stern but ever since I used him for a fluffy game a few months ago he has seen the field more and more, I find his build to be very effective vs chaos daemons and orc armies (something I am facing more and more) and if you are smart his special ability can be useful (like if you have the last turn, or if he gets trapped it can be great to ensure he goes down fighting)
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