Librarium Online Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Space Marine Weaknesses

7K views 22 replies 14 participants last post by  LRSeriesIII 
#1 ·
I'm pretty certain this hasn't been done before... I used Search and nothing even remotely like this turned up... In fact, -nothing- turned up.

So, we've all heard about how good Space Marines are: good armour, good guns and whatnot, but I was wondering this--what's BAD about them? What weaknesses do Space Marines have that can be exploited by enemy players?

What do you think?
 
#2 ·
High point costs.

That's pretty much it!

They're a very good all-around army, with execellent saves, covering all their bases, a little ordnance, good blast weapons, more than decent in melee.

Their main weakness is the lack of numbers you can fit in a set number of points.

As such, they're vulnerable to theses :

- Blast, high AP weapons (Disintegrators, Warp Blast, Plasma Cannon)
- Small, elite units with power weapons and high ini (Genestealers, Howling Banshees, Bloodletters, Daemonettes)
- Fast, highly specialised close combat units (Winged Hive Tyrant, DE Archon w/ Skyboard, Greater Daemons)
- Powerful ordnance weapons (Battlecannon, demolisher)
- Very high numbers (Gaunts, Rippers, many many lasgun shots)

But I believe that the SM, along with Chaos and Necrons, are the few armies that can kick anybody's ass simply by adapting to the ennemy's army.
The Tyranids, for exemple, can't do that... if an opponent gets a lot of indirect fire ordnance, or blast weapons (Basilisks, or havoc lauchers) and simply fires while moving backwards, the 'nid player will be hard pressed to find an adequate tactic to counter that. Same idea if the ennemy takes 4-5 vehicules - we don't have enough effective anti-armor at long range to adapt to that.

So in a nutshell, the best way to beat a SM user is to take him by surprise by using a good tactic that is not usually used against them - deep striking in their ranks to distract them from the real threat, infiltrating units to harass them (Rangers, 'stealers)
Anything to make sure your actual marine killers can survive long enough to take out the biggest threat in their armies depending on which army YOU play.

Hope it helps!
 
#3 ·
Space Marines do have some weaknesses actually. Some of them, terminators for example, cost way more than they are actually worth. Terminators have become so awful, in fact, that in my area no one uses them anymore. I mean, out of 50 regular players, more than half being SM players, I've seen them used twice in the past 8 months maybe.

The second weakness ties in with the first one, in that because of their high points costs, there are fewer models on the table. This can really suck if any of their opponents have a really good round of shooting or assaulting.
 
#4 ·
Space Marine weaknessess are as follows:

- Low Strength in Combat

- Usually outnumbered

- Units aren't characterised

That's just about it IMO. They aren't a rubbish army, they're quite good, and will apparently be better with the release of the new Codex. So, all we can do is wait in hope that they'll get some God Damned high Strength in Combat. :p
 
#5 ·
I'm not sure what you mean by "Low Strength in Combat", they have S4 with the option to go to S8 with powerfists and thunderhammers. Isn't that enough? Think of the poor Eldar who have to struggle with S3 :)
 
#7 ·
I Agree with Squibie, Eldar have the Avatar, But i dont really Care, i have my S 5 Wulfen and Models like a WG pack leader with 4 Power weapon attacks, S aint an issure if u use what u got properly tho
 
#8 ·
yea i agree thats kinda what i wanted when they said power armor and stuff but i think the real weekness to spacemarines is Ordinace! man you can get really blown away from lets say a leman Russ or a whirl wind, but in all out i think they should atleast have a strength 5 in closecombat or something to fight demons he he :w
 
#9 ·
Space Marines have Dreadnoughts and the like with high strength.

Besides, you have to remember that the strength of the Space Marines does not lie in characters with incredible stats and special rules, it lies in just the awsome capability of each individual Marine. And I suppose this could be considered a weakness: their lack of high end close combat monster characters like Demon Princes and so forth means they have to call upon their individual regular Marines to stop such beasts.

If you are trying to take out a Marine army, attack them everywhere at once. Marines do well when they are able to concentrate their forces. This is standard for elite forces with few troops but really good individual troops. When they concentrate their forces, they do very well (because they are less outnumbered in the actual combat, so they can overwhelm their opponent because their individuals are so good). However, Space Marines can be spread much thinner than, say, Imperial Guard.

This is infinitely more true of Terminators. Terminators are actually, in my opinion, quite good, when used properly. They can overwhelm an opponent like no other unit in the game. However, if exposed in the wrong way, they can quickly become outnumbered and overwhelmed themselves.

Think of the Terminators as a very sharp, very hard blade (such as a Japanese katana). When striking with the blade it is almost unstoppable, but at the same time its rigidity means that it is actually quite fragile. Strike it the wrong way, or bend it the wrong way, and it will crack. Terminators do not bend without breaking.
 
#11 ·
Originally posted by RionikuAnjiru@May 30 2004, 11:43
Actually, a katana is very flexible, and will bend easily rather than break if it is well made ;)
:huh:
Are you sure? My understanding was always that the actual blade of the katana was made of very well hardened steel, allowing it to keep its sharp edge, but also resulting in a rather brittle blade. My understanding was that the back part was made of steel which was not as hardened as much, allowing it to be a little bit more flexible and absorb more energy. The result being that any parrying was done with the side or back of the sword, not the blade. (Hardened steel is brittle by definition. It does not bend much when force is applied to it, but as a result it can end up breaking if it is bent. It is, however, very good at maintaining a sharp blade because it deforms so little.)
 
#12 ·
A katana is the result of one large sheet of metal being folded many, many times over itself, resulting in a very thin and very flexible blade that will "chip off" some of it's layers during a fight, sometimes needing to be reforged.

I can't remember the name of the documentary, but some sword polisher took a katana and told the camera that it was a very flexible blade, bent it, and than formed it back to is original shape.
 
#13 ·
katanas are not supposed to bend. you're thinking of another kind of sword designed to bend. i forgot what it's called but i would know. i train w/ weapons.

katanas were blades used to cut through armor, bone, and everything else. they were tested out on prisoners. the way to tell if the sword was good was if you could cut from the shoulder to the thigh in one strike. so like katanas, terminators are meant to kill in one strike
 
#15 ·
I would say Space Marines are vulnerable to Ordnance weapons also, a while ago a BA player got a whole 10-man Tactical Squad wiped out by a Leman Russ. Harsh. :ph34r:

And BrotherAzriel we adopted the same fetus! Hooray!
 
#17 ·
but most high toughness monsters often become bullseyes for the preds/vinicators while the marines beat the crap out of their troops :)
 
#18 ·
Originally posted by Exterminatus-Squeebie@May 30 2004, 16:15
Dreadnoughts may have high S, but they're Vehicles so get pounded by Monstrous Creatures, and also, don't have enough attacks (unless they're Khornate on Blood Frenzy or Death Company Dreadnoughts).
Yeah, but the Space Marine Dreadnought is still more of an infantry support tool than a monster hunter on its own.

Like I said before, the strength of the Space Marines lies in the incredible prowess of each individual Marine. They are elite infantry.

Think of them as the 40k equivalent of modern day US Marines or US Army Rangers. Each individual infantryman is elite and highly skilled, and all of the vehicles and so forth are there to support him, not to do the fighting for him.
 
#19 ·
i don't know why you'd complain about the strength of a space marine in combat... i mean think about it... does it makes sense to have marines that have the ability to wound a wraithlord in close combat by hitting it on the kneecap with their bolter? i don't THINK SO!!!
their main weakness is in low numbers... it makes it hard to get the right things in the right places sometimes... and also you take to counting every casualty whereas mass armies just go 'oh... i lost another 15 guardsmen... at least i've got 100 more'... even losing one marine can make a difference in the outcome of the game
 
#20 ·
Originally posted by gobbo@Jun 6 2004, 16:14
i don't know why you'd complain about the strength of a space marine in combat... i mean think about it... does it makes sense to have marines that have the ability to wound a wraithlord in close combat by hitting it on the kneecap with their bolter? i don't THINK SO!!!
I do not think that they are complaining about the strength of the average Marine, simply that they do not have much in the way of high strength models at all.
 
#21 ·
All marines have the same S, T, and most other stats, meaning that the basic units are powerful, but the special squads, like HQ, etc., are not as powerful as other armies equivalents.

P.S. am I alone in thinking that even with a 2+ armour save, Terminators should have a higher toughness to show that they are wearing extremely heavy armour? The 2+ save is good, but they still die all too often.
 
#22 ·
as a SM player i see the biggest problem is the point cost (big suprise huh), in small games SM rules! even in large games its all bout terrain, were u deploy so that u get the max out of each unit, the prob comes when u cant take advantage of these factors (and others)...u tend 2 get outnumbered, meaning ul get the sh$% blown out of u...ur u get overrun (these are my 2 cents)
 
#23 ·
Originally posted by Dark_Epsilon@Jun 9 2004, 14:29
as a SM player i see the biggest problem is the point cost (big suprise huh), in small games SM rules! even in large games its all bout terrain, were u deploy so that u get the max out of each unit, the prob comes when u cant take advantage of these factors (and others)...u tend 2 get outnumbered, meaning ul get the sh$% blown out of u...ur u get overrun (these are my 2 cents)
You have to think like a Space Marine.

Space Marines do not attack at all points all along a front, they simply do not have the points. I know it is tempting to try and use the terrain for all it is worth, but if that means spreading your troops out, then do not do it.

Space Marines make precision strikes and attacks at key points. In most battles the Space Marines are likely to fight (fluff wise) they are probably barely outnumbered if they are attacking, as they are smart and will attack in force at a specific spot. You must learn to do the same.

Attack your opponent with a large part of your force at a single spot. The number of troops that can fight will be limited by the terrain instead of by the number available, so you will not be outnumbered. With even numbers, Marines can really rock.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top