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  1. #1
    Member Just_Me's Avatar
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    Combined Arms in Regiments?

    Can Guard regiments contain both armor and infantry? In creating the fluff for my Guard regiment, I have written it as combining elements of both infantry and armor. The concept is somewhat influenced by the Panzer Divisions of WWII (which combined both armor and infantry), and by the fact that I like my army to have a unified look on the table.

    I generally try to find a precedent in the existing fluff for anything unusual I write into my armies, so for example my regiment receives continual reinforcements, an unusual occurrence but one for which the Vostroyans have already set precedent.

    My question for all of you is, how plausible does this seem? I know of only one possible precedent for this; in Imperial Armour Volume 1 there is a Leman Russ depicted in the colors of the Cadian 8th (‘same as the ones that appear in the online store) and its footnote identifies it as belonging to that regiment. We all know that the 8th is an infantry regiment, but this would suggest that they also field tanks.

    If anyone thinks it would help, I can post the background fluff I have written, but as it is very long, and I have posted an earlier version of it a long time ago, I will not do so now unless asked.

    Cry woe, destruction, ruin and decay;
    The worst is death, and death will have his day.

    -Shakespeare; King Richard II

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  3. #2
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    im really unsure of what you mean. Almost every IG regiment fields tanks. In TT a IG army seems empty without tanks. Do you mean to start a armored company using the armored company rules or what?

  4. #3
    Wave Man Kahoolin's Avatar
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    I have been mightily confused by this same thing, mostly because the forgeworld books organize regiments in a more real-world fashion, labelling tanks as belonging to armoured regiments and guns as artillery regiments etc. This is not how imperial regiments are usually done though I think.

    I think in the codex it says that back in the days of the Horus Heresy regiments were designed to be combined arms forces that could each fit on a single spacecraft. This influenced later regiments so the IG army list represents a standard imperial regiment, which is infantry, armour and artillery support maintained by techpriests, plus scouts and attached commissars. Abhumans and rough riders are usually auxiliaries who are in their own regiments and seconded to other regiments. Doctrines and alternate lists also represent regiments which depart from the combined arms organization and could be all drop, all mech, all tanks, etc.

    Basically there is variation, so you can do what you like. The standard IG regiment is not organized like modern ones, but is combined arms, so you can definitely paint your tanks to match your grunts.

  5. #4
    Member thepete's Avatar
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    From everything I've seen they can not. It's mentioned again in 5th or Apoc I think, I can't remember which. The idea being that if a regiment is turned by chaos or otherwise they don't have a full fighting force. Cadian 8th might be unique because of the whole fortress world thing they have going on.

    Color scheme-wise it isn't a problem though. All the regiments contained in one army are going to the same place, are under the same high command and paint/camo accordingly. Besides in all the FW books there's not too many tanks besides Cadian 8th that are marked with their regiment. Just company/squad/tank number etc. Some have that regimental color banding but it doesn't mess with the overall scheme and doesn't need to be there.

    Obviously once things are moving they all work together like any modern army with infantry commanders requesting a few tanks for a mission or the other way around. To me that's what you're seeing in a normal codex list.

    Short answer - Paint them however you want. No one will complain.

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    Pedantic Englishman Wolf Lord Herby's Avatar
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    As a general rule, tanks, artillery, and auxilieries like abhumans are in dedicated regiments, and they're then broken up and attached to whatever infantry regiment needs them most.

    However, such is the vastness of the Imperium, and the diversity of the worlds therein, you really can organise it how you like. If you want your regiment to be combined arms, you can. It's entirely your decision. Imperial Guard are one of those few armies, like Orks, where their organisation is really entirely down to you. You could replace all your JO's with Sergeant Majors if you wanted, and say there's only 1 officer in each Company, if the fancy took you. It'd use the same rules on the tabletop, and the fluff behind the army is entirely your choice.
    FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC

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    Member YounGunner's Avatar
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    To make the force look modern and fluffy just worry about your core units first. If you've got a few infantry platoons, that looks like a company. Most infantry companies have attachments at the company level like a few mortars, snipers, a tank, forward observers (arty), not to mention cooks, mechanics, paper pushers and stuff. Then at the battalion level other things get pushed down, depending on the mission, and attached like recon (more snipers or vets), tanks, mortars, anything really. If you want to bring some stormtroopers or grey knights with a more conventional looking force they could sort of be the equivalent of a special forces attachment, LRSD, Delta, whatever. Once your core infantry platoons (or platoon if you go mech) and hq platoon are established the attachments aren't that hard to explain.

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    Member YounGunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Lord Herby View Post
    You could replace all your JO's with Sergeant Majors if you wanted, and say there's only 1 officer in each Company,
    Sergeant Majors are at the battalion level. I agree with where you are going with this though. I always thought the platoon sergeant role was neglected with IG, especially seeing as how he normally plays a support role while officers are supposed to stay with the main assault element.

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    Member Just_Me's Avatar
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    I am not really concerned with the table-top in asking this question. It really revolves around the background of the regiment from which my tabletop forces come.

    First off it should be noted that “regiment” (2,000-3,000 men) is a very loose term to use for the Imperial Guard’s basic organizational level, they can apparently run from units of hundreds to units counted in the tens of thousands, so really they cover the whole range from what we would call battalion strength to division strength. The only reason they seem to be called regiments is a throwback to the regimental system in the Napoleonic era, under which regiments were each responsible for their own recruitment and organization.

    So when I was coming up with the background for my regiment I first considered that I wanted to echo the combat styles of WWII (to me the Guard have always seemed to have WWII-ish feel), in which the basic organizational level was the division (10,000-20,000 men). This seemed more in keeping with the levels of the more “advanced” Imperial Guard regiments (e.g. the Cadians, roughly 8-10,000 men).

    In addition, I have always had a love for tanks, so I decided to model the organizational structure on the German Panzer divisions (some of the most effective armored formations of the Second World War). In theory a Panzer division consisted of two regiments of infantry and two of armor (although there were some with different composition), so I settled on about 10 infantry companies and 5 armored companies.

    It has been stated that Imperial Guard regiments are fairly standardized in terms of composition, if not size; with infantry regiments consisting of only infantry, armored only armor, artillery only artillery, etc. This system was instated after the Horus Heresy, and is intended to ensure that no regiment that turned traitor would have all the tools of war. However, certain specialized regiments with different compositions have been mentioned, for example; the Death Korps of Krieg field specialized siege regiments that combine both vast numbers of infantry and massed static artillery, the Elysians have Valkyries permanently attached to their formations, and the Phantine are entirely equipped with aircraft, but never has a combined infantry/armor regiment been definitively mentioned.

    So while I am fairly confident that a combined arms regiment with both infantry and tanks is not entirely unreasonable, I am curious about what others think about the subject, would you consider this to be too great a departure from the norm?
    Cry woe, destruction, ruin and decay;
    The worst is death, and death will have his day.

    -Shakespeare; King Richard II

  10. #9
    Armored Cav Addict Zeewulf's Avatar
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    I'm quite sure a Guard Regiment off on the backside of nowheres can get away with that...My own guard are modeled into a 'combined arms' setup thats not really following of the real-world or WH40k fluff: I've got my main Battalion, and its broken down into Companies: Infantry Company (A Co), Artillery Battery (B Co), Armor Company (C Co), Maintence Company (D Co), Aviation Company (E Co) and Scout Company (F Co). Its a rather large and diverse battalion, but its better than having severa 'battalions' that are all company sized. This whole setup is influenced by the setup of the 2-82nd Avn, out of the 82nd Combat Aviation Brigade: You've got HHC, which is Headquarters, A Co, B Co and C Co which are all Flight companies, D Co, which handles Helicopter Maintence, E Co, which is the Motorpool, and then I don't remember the company, but they've got an attached Infantry Company, too. This is all if I remember correctly, anyway.

    But yeah, fluff-wise, I'd say you could get away with it.

  11. #10
    Superflat Monogram Sayomi Akimoto's Avatar
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    To have a combined arms regiment is completely plausible in the vast universe of Warhammer 40k, where the numbers don't really matter.

    If you're alright going back in time, you could say your regiment is from the bygone days of the Great Crusade, where arms were more freely integrated due to the lack of fear of rebellion.

    If you're trying to keep it more "modern" (Whatever the hell that means in the Grim Darkness of the stagnant future), even then it's completely and totally fluff plausible.

    There are quite a few instances where Imperial Guard Regiments are raised with a specific purpose (Some planets completely devote themselves to this one purpose, such as the Elysian Drop Troops or the Krieg Siege regiments as you have mentioned), with these regiments having slightly to vastly different forms of organization.

    Thus, you could say your Imperial Guard Regiment was formed to be completely and totally self reliant without the need to ask specialized regiments for special gear such as tanks, storm troopers, etc.

    Perhaps it's because the planet was only expected to raise one regiment, and in order to ensure it's men the utmost survival and met certain standards, had the regiment organized in a combined arms manner. These men, unlike the vast majority of the Imperium, might hail from a world where such Imperial Guard standardization hasn't set in. Perhaps your men are an Inquisitorial regiment that requires that it be as flexible as possible without having to rely on other regiments for support. Perhaps your regiment is one of the rare "Experimental" regiments, seeing how effective the combined arms theory is in comparison to the standard divisional theory. Perhaps your regiment is the closest thing to a special forces regiment your local Imperial Forces can muster, and thus have their own devoted specialists to ensure loyalty and such.

    Hell, you just said you were basing your army off of Panzer Divisions! Perhaps the planet your men hailed from had an Imperial Academy that encouraged that sort of style of warfare, and your planet's famous for it.

    There are plenty of plausible ways to say why your regiment is organized in a different manner than others.

    The Imperium is a big place. Very few people will mind that fluffwise, the arms of your regiment are integrated. Considering the size of the Imperium, I've noticed that quite literally every style of warfare known to man has become a regiment.

    In fact, it will probably be seen as somewhat original, considering the stifling bureaucracy of the Imperium, in which hardly anything has changed in ten thousand years.

    In addition, may of the more unique regiments and characters were originally player created and integrated into fluff. Captain Tycho is one example (Poor bastard is dead though). Hell, the 101st Imperial Storm Trooper legion, Vader's Fist, was a fan creation! Alright, that wasn't Warhammer, but I think you'll get the point.

    Besides, I've seen worse ideas. Female Space Marines among them.

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