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i've recently made a celtic chapter. and these marines reckon its cowardly to use tanks (except dreads and landspeeders) so heres my list and i need a LOT of help
HQ: terminator chaplain with ten-man terminator assault squad
Elites: ten-man terminator squad - furioso dreadnought - dreadnought with dreadnought close combat weapon and assault cannon
Troops: three ten-man tactical squads - ten-man scout squad with close combat weapons and boltpistols - ten-man scout squad with five bolters, four shotguns and a heavy bolter - ten-man scout squad with sniper rifles and a missile launcher
Fast Attack: two landspeeder tornadoes and a landspeeder typhoon in a squadron - two ten-man assault squads with teleporter homers for the chaplain and his squad who will deep strike
Heavy Support: two ten-man devastator squads - dreadnought with lascannons and missile launchers
HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP! HELP!
Oh come on now, that isn't helping him at all. I recommend first, looking at the BLACK TEMPLAR Space Marine rules (I read your fluff, and quite liked it!) because I believe that would fit your army quite well.
With that in mind, I think crunchy is right- vehicles are awesome! So take what you will (max out Dreadnoughts) and make them all AT, since your marines seem to be front line fighters.
Next, if the Marines ARE supposed to fight in CC, switch them to have Bolt Pistols and CCWs. The same adage applies... a powerfist/power weapon in every squad and snag some melta guns. Repitetion is good... make a bunch of similar units.
Shotguns on scouts are generally looked down upon... I recommend if they're all going to outflank and assault, to go with BP/CCW, with a Sergeant with PF/PW. If they're going to harass infantry, Bolters, Heavy Bolters and Snipers will work fine. Don't mix and match your heavy weapons with assault weapons with your scouts. Move em to assault and harass or stay further back and harass and equip them accordingly.
I like Landspeeders (very fast AT), some people swear by Attack Bikes. Put some teeth in your Assault Units and they should be set.
Devastators are kinda hit and miss for me. They cost so many points to get their weapons. You could just horde these guys with bolters/ BP+ CCW (if they can get it) and rush them. If you REALLY have to get em, go all Missile Launchers.
In general, I feel Assault Terminators are easy pickins. They have no ranged attacks and move slowly... though they slaughter anything they hit. You have 10 of them. It's ridiculous. Cut down the number to maybe 4 or 5 because with the Chaplain, they're already going to kill everything they hit. If you can leave just a few models for the enemy to retaliate with, you ll be safe from a turn of shooting. Don't forget that Rites of Battle + Lightning Claw re-rolls = mass of death!
Split up your other 10 man Terminator unit too. Hell, make it two units or even drop half of both those Terminator units and get another HQ unit and retinue.
If you haven't gotten the codex yet (regarding your fluff post in the army list? section) I recommend doing so, it'll help you a ton. Keep focused, keep tight, and convert these guys well. It'll be a fun army to play with and against.
Your DIY chapter sounds quite good. The "No vehicles" theme is quite fluffy and would be nice to play from a fluff point of view. =)
As crunchy said, you are limiting yourself pretty badly not taking vehicles, but there are some ways around this.
One thing to note with your list, dreadnoughts are Elite options in the current codex, so you shouldnt be taking one as a heavy support option.
In order to play with the least number of armoured units, you want to think about fast attack. Sitting at the back shooting will not work without armour to support, so you need to go all-out close combat.
I would honestly think of basing your DIY chapter on the Blood Angels codex, and there are several points why i sugest this.
- assault marines are troop choices, meaning more men get into the fight faster and you dont need a rhino to make those last-turn contests on objectives!
- furioso dreadnought is actually a viable option (its not available in the current SM codex!)
- Death company could be made very fluffy for your chapter
- FREE CODEX!!! Its available to download from the GW website!
- jump-pack honor guard.
In short, I would really really look into basing your celtic chapter on the blood angels codex, as i think that would give you a lot of ideas and a lot of options for your army list.
If the BA codex doesnt appeal to you, consider drop-pods for every non-terminator unit (except scouts!), and teleport all the termies you can into battle with the scout teleport homer being infiltrated onto the board first turn =)
If you need any more help fine-turning your list, drop a post in the Marine Army List forum and they'll sort you out =)
thnx heaps for all the input!
many people have said sm armies with out tanks aren't very mobile and are pretty hard to use, so i was thinking of maybe allowing my chapter to take transports (landraiders and razorbacks representing chariots) so i get bit of armour and fire support... what do you guys reckon?
CeanRabbit, what you said about basing my army on blood angels is probably my most sensible option. however i love sniper scouts devestators sooo much. and i love the idea of ten bolters rapid firing. can i take snipers and devastators in a BA-based army?
by the way, isn't there some trait which allows you to take dreadnoughts as heavy support?
I'm not a BA player, but I'm pretty sure they allow snipers and devastators. The codex is free and on GW's Web site. That will tell you better than I can.
Re: Vehicles. My DIY army (on hold till the codex comes out) is infantry-heavy too, so I feel your pain. I was considering drop pods until 5th edition came out. Now, I'm not sure. It's going to take a few more games in 5th before I can decide if it's worth going mech. That used to be reserved for IG, with most players turning up their noses at Rhinos. They used to be called "rolling coffins," and for good reason.
yer, i reckon i'll go get myself a copy of BA codex right now.....
P.S. I'd mix in a thunder hammer or two with those L/claws, if only because of how prevalant walkers are becoming (And Thunder Hammers Smack them)
P.P.S. I'm assuming you're going to give the command squad at least kilts.
Incase you haven't already picked up a copy of the BA codex, here are the answers you want.
Scouts are elite options (not troop options!) in the blood angels codex, and you can still have sniper scouts as normal =)
Devastators are the same as the normal codex =)
As BA, you can take assault marines and tactical marines as normal troop options, so those 10 rapid-firing bolters are still a viable option =)
The furioso dreadnought gets some real bonuses, such as a gun on each close combat arm (storm bolter / flamer AND meltagun!), and an extra D3 close combat attacks. Drop-pod that into the enemy and watch them die =)
A direct link to the free-to-download blood angels codex is here incase you haven't found it yet :
I can just see you re-naming the "death company" to the "drunk company", who are so out of their face they just run to the enemy screaming and falling over each other =)
I should note, I dont play blood angels, a close friend does. I play a Raven Guard successor. I actually HATE fighting against BA. They are extremly mobile, hard hitting bandits who i have yet to beat, so they should suit you perfectly =)
Keep us up to date with how things are going =)
P.S - Lol Crunchy, i hadn't thought about kilt-wearing space marines. The image is quite entertaining! =)
Last edited by CleanRabbit; August 21st, 2008 at 09:52. Reason: added PS
the more i come to think of it, i reckon i will base it on the BA codex, seeing as how celts are pretty close combat orientated. my new army list is this:
HQ: chaplain Terminator armour, storm bolter, Rosarius, and Crozius Arcanum. He is accompanied by an Honour Guard (while reading the BA codex i couldn't figure out if the Honour Guard could take Terminator Armour?)
For my second HQ, what would be best, another chaplain to help control the Death Company and the Dreadnought Furiosos or a Commander or a Librarian? (on whole, i'd like my two HQ slots to be filled by two Terminator Squads, and everyone will have Storm Shields)
Elite: ten man Veteran Assault Squad with Frag grenades, Krak grenades, Bolt pistol, chainsword, Power armour, Jump pack, two Power weapons and a Thunder Hammer and Combat Shields ( i was thinking i could represent the Thunder Hammer with a Great Sword).
Furioso Dreadnought Two Dreadnought close combat weapons, one with built-in storm bolter and one with built-in meltagun, Smoke launchers, Searchlight
Furioso Dreadnought Two Dreadnought close combat weapons, one with built-in storm bolter and one with built-in flamer, Smoke launchers, Searchlight (is it worth taking Extra Armour with Dreadnoughts?)
Troops: 1 Veteran Sergeant (with Combat Shield and Power Weapon) 9 Space Marines with Power armours, Jump packs, Bolt pistols, Frag grenades, Krak grenades and Chainswords.
1 Veteran Sergeant (with Combat Shield and Power Weapon) 9 Space Marines with Power armours, Jump packs, Bolt pistols, Frag grenades, Krak grenades and Chainswords.
1 Veteran Sergeant (with Combat Shield and Power Fist) 9 Space Marines with Power armours, Jump packs, Bolt pistols, Frag grenades, Krak grenades and Chainswords.
1 Veteran Sergeant (with Bolt pistol and Power Fist) 9 Space Marines with Power Armour, Bolters, Bolt pistols, Krak grenades, Frag grenades, a Melta and a Multi-melta. A Blood Angels Rhino accompanies this squad, it has: Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers and a Search light.
1 Veteran Sergeant (with Bolt pistol and Power Weapon) 9 Space Marines with Power Armour, Bolters, Bolt pistols, Krak grenades, Frag grenades, a Missile Launcer and a Flamer. A Blood Angels Rhino accompanies this squad, it has: Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers and a Search light.
1 Veteran Sergeant (with Bolt pistol and Chainsword) 9 Space Marines with Power Armour, Bolters, Bolt pistols, Krak grenades, Frag grenades, a Heavy Bolter and a Flamer. A Blood Angels Rhino accompanies this squad, it has: Storm Bolter, Smoke Launchers and a Search light. (in the ‘Options’ section for Blood Angels Rhino it says you can have a Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter for an extra 5 points, what is the difference between the original Storm Bolter and the upgrade?)
Fast Attack: in my fast attack option i’d love to have:
Land Speeder Squadron with two Tornadoes armed with two Assault Cannons and two Heavy Bolters, one Typhoon with Heavy Bolter and Typhoon Missile Launchers
Land Speeder Squadron with three Tornadoes armed with three Heavy Flamers and three Multi-meltas.
One Land Speeder Tempest.
Or instead of the Tempest i could have five Space Marine Bikers and a Space Marine Attack Biker.
What do you guys think? Tempest or bikes?
Heavy Support: 10 man Devastator Squad, Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, five marines with Bolters, four Marines with four Missile Launchers
10 man Devastator Squad, Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, five marines with Bolters, four Marines with four (Lascannons or Multi-meltas for tank hunting?)
10 man Devastator Squad, Sergeant with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword, five marines with Bolters, four Marines with four Heavy Bolters.
Extras: Techmarine with Servo-Harness, four servitors with two Heavy Bolters, a Multi-Melta and a Plasma Cannon. This squad is accompanied by a razorback with twin-linked lascannons.
Techmarine with Servo-Harness, four servitors with servo-arms and close combat weapons. This squad is accompanied by a razorback with twin-linked Heavy Bolters
2x six man Death Company Squad (unless i can put them together in one big squad?). They are armed withFrag grenades, Krak grenades, Bolt pistols, Chainswords, Power armour. (do you recommend giving them Jump Packs? Or Transports?)
Note: this is a VERY fluff orientated force and as such the following will have Combat Shields or Storm Shields: HQs, Veteran Assault Squad, all Veteran Sergeants and the Death Company units.
There you have it, my revised Army List. I am REALLY bad at making army lists so i need a fare bit of help, as you no doubt have noticed. =)