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Okay, with the new 5th ed rules, defensive weapons are down to 4 or less strength. Which means that where, in previous editions there was no reason not to take a hull-mounted heavy bolter with heavy bolter sponsons (unless it was a demolisher), now I don't know...
Now, it's better for the Battle Canon (since it can be fired and move up to 6" in a turn), but if I want to fire all of those HBs on my Leman Russ, I can't move at all.
So, people's opinions: is it better to keep mobility and keep moving (allowing better targeting against units, 4+ to hit in assault, etc) or to stay still and fire off 9 Str 5 AP 4 shots?
EDIT: Oh, and I should also mention, that I'm asking from the perspective of an Armored Company player in 2,500pt or so games.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
I still use Heavy Bolter side sponsons on my Demolishers and Russes because: A. Sometimes it's better to open up with Heavy Bolters against:
- Units with a large footprint, such as Terminators and Crisis Suits, your blast, after scatter, is probably going to cover 2 dudes, 3 if you're lucky, whereas your Heavy Bolter wounds have to be allocated to the entire unit.
- Light Vehicles and Light Vehicle squadrons, such as: Piranhas, Sentinels, Land Speeders, Space Marine/Eldar Jetbikes, and Dark Eldar Raiders because again your blast isn't going to cover the entire unit, or is going to miss completely, and Heavy Bolters can do a number against Bikes and AV10.
- Tyranid monstrous creatures because you're not going to insta-kill them, so with your Battle/Demoliser Cannon you're only inflicting 1 wound, with Heavy Bolters you can potentially inflict 9 wounds
And the B reason why I still take Sponsons is because now the opponent chooses what weapon is destroyed if they roll that result on the damage table and the first one they're going to remove is the Battle/Demolisher cannon and then you're dead in the water, but with Heavy Bolters you can still cause huge amounts of havoc.
Last edited by counterwavecounter; August 26th, 2008 at 18:51.
"The man in the bowler hat is Mr. Average in his anonymity. I, too, wear one; I have no great desire to stand out from the masses." - Rene Magritte
I'd say, add what you can if you have the points.
Additional weapons means that if/when you lose your battle cannon or lascannon to a 'weapon destroyed' result, you still have something to shoot with.
Additional weapons means that if/when you get immobilized you can become a Heavy Bolter Bunker and shoot all your weapons.
In other words, I don't think that it is totally wasted points if you add the sponsons.
At some point you may have to just experiment and arm different squadrons different ways and see how things work out.
[COLOR=DarkRedI got my tournament t-shirts at mathhammer.net[/COLOR]
I am of the mind that for additional weapons, go either with a Lascannon and no sponsons, or three heavy bolters. I myself have all of my Battlecannon-armed tanks equipped with three heavy bolters. My Vanquisher and Demolisher both have lascannons, and the Demolisher plasma cannons too.
My reasoning is this: a Leman Russ without a battlecannon and only a single hull weapon is pretty much 145-155pts wasted. By 'gambling' with an additional ten points for those three heavy bolters, it's all of a sudden not a wasted unit if the battlecannon gets destroyed. The difference if the tank itself is destroyed is only 10 more points. I'd rather have those two HBs than a plasma gun in a command squad or something. Three heavy bolters can even force saves on Marines, not to mention annihilate Tyranids and Orks. In 4th, I'd often rather fire heavy bolters into hordes instead of the BC - but now with no partials I'm finding the BC is better haha.
"Not Another Step Back! Death to the Enemies of Man!"
Plus the HB sponsoons can be better for close support, becuse you may need to sweep enemies off you other units espceially w/ AC, and a battle cannon isn't exactly the safest way to do so.
Battlesuits, putting the BS in BullS*%t.
Ok, so the general feeling is this:
Either go 3 HB or 1 Lascannon.
Personally, I detest Lascannons for IG vehicles. BS 3 and single shot weapons don't go well together in my book. That said, they might be a good investment for the Demolishers, since they a) give them a bit more range and b) give them more heavy-duty weapons.
Thanks for the quick answers. I think I know what my army list is going to look like now (pop over to that forum if you want to help me there).
Only the hull mounted gun seems worth it, and I actually prefer the heavy bolter over the lascannon. It's cheaper, far more likely to get a hit, and with IG I find I have more trouble with horde than armor.
"Any job worth doing, is worth doing with a powerklaw."
im guna buck the trend and put in a word for the heavy flamer when my main gun is down i charge forward and death or glory as much as possible and ram tanks.
but heavy flamers help this as if the enemy jump out the way i heavy-flame them or if i do the hide behind infantry tactic i flame any flank marchers who are eyeing up my battle. line pluss its cheap!!!
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I put plasma sponsons and a heavy bolter on my demolisher. I really like it, the plasma is great for killing some marines or termies on the way over there, and unless they're tightly packed then 2 plasma cannons and a heavy bolter will do more damage to stuff than the single demolisher cannon.