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I'm curious to know what people think about the new rules update that are coming out for 40k - with specific focus on what it means for Inquisition players.
Of particular concern to me are the Rapid Fire/heavy weapon rule (no assault), and the Get's Hot! (1 or 2 if 2 shots) - esp. when used in conjuntion (eg: Plasma Gun @ 12" or less)
and Fearless models (all GKs) can now take auto-wounds if outnumbered and lose CC!
Line of sight no longer obstructed by troops (no more protecting expensive GKs with cheap storm troopers as meat shields!
ANy other opinions?
i think the only thing really effecting daemonhunters are the outnumbering and new line of sight rules but suddenly making greyknight squads larger sounds a good idea as they can take wouinds for outnumbering andcant hide as well now, but remember if your GK's are behind IST's your opponenet has to make a leadership check to shoot them now so they have some protection.The rapid fire rules dont bother me as grey knights only have assualt weapons anyway and my stormtroopers doing one of either shooting or assualting isnt that major. Still were not as screwed for the outnumbering rule as slaneesh which have to take 6man squads!
Maybe this was already a rule, but the "within 2" of a friendly in base to base can use full and special attacks" is the greatest rule ever. More or less, EVERY MODEL IN CC SHOULD GET ALL ATTACKS. That's an awful lot of S6 attacks in CC. Let's just say assault ain't going to take long.
Ordanace marker centers having to be on the vehicle should also help DH last longer.
The fearless is interesting, not sure when that could hurt, but it might. Makes sense though. We just don't know when to give up.
Meat shields are gone, that's the only sad news I see. Plasma no deal for me. At least the LR is getting some benefits over rhino with assault allowed. Generally if you play more STs and Inq, then I can see these new rules as more negative, except Chims of course. As for GKs, all is good, very good.
oh yea, and rapid fire weapons just suck. Ouch! Gotta love the storm bolters
I like what I've seen so far.
Let's face it, GK are amazingly strong. Some of these rules knock them down a bit (fearless -> wounds in combat), while some stand them back up (assault weapons!. But with the new 2" circle in CC, I don't forsee GK losing too often in assault.
As for screening, I've always thought of that as a bullshit tactic for the most part. My Grey Knights all deepstrike, so screening wouldn't do anything anyways. My Inquisitor firebases are always guarded by IST squads, but thats part fluff (bodyguards) and part "I want something to survive till my reserves show".
It looks like the new rules make 40K a bit more complex, and a bit more realistic. And if what they gave us was a good cross-section, then DH haven't been made obsolete, nor overpowered. Can't wait to try them out!
1. Jump packs
No effect really
No effect really
No effect really
Good and bad (slightly). No more screening units with IST or IG, although I use pure GK so it wont bother me. Allows shooting at psycannon heavy ranged units though. Still, GK have Shrouding which still helps to protect us. Especially if the full rules include a "if you fail the Ld roll you cannot fire at all" then this will only make it more difficult to shoot GK at a distance. With a Ld of 9 and 10 GK should only be minimally affected when having to make the roll.
5. Monstrous creatures/cover
MC's don't have any effect, improved cover saves have a minimal effect. One word, incinerators.
6. Rapid Fire
This is a good change. It makes GK having storm bolters a great advantage. SM opponents won't be able to shoot and then charge. Less worries about those pesky BA and SW.
No effect as GK can't take plasma weapons except on =I=. Any =I= and retinue using plasma should have mastercrafted and a pair of sages for rerolls anyway.
This will help GK. If firing enemy is outside of shrouding spotting then he scatters 1d6 x2 if in LOS and 2d6 *choose highest* then x2, meaning a much greater scatter.. or hmmm... if they fail to spot (fail shrouding roll) are they considered out of LOS regardless if no terrain or vehicles are in the way? That would really suck for our enemies then ...
Woo!! Best change for GK. They can fire their storm bolters and still charge that unit, retaining true grit (and their 2 A) plus all models in 2" get their NFW S6.
Well, increases the value of a LR so makes those 250 points more worthwhile for GK transports. GK can still be transported in the LR, hop out, shoot their storm bolters, then assault in the same turn. Still, with the plethora of lascannons it means LR are more fragile now since they are penetrated on 5 or 6 by AP1.
GK dreadnoughts become even tougher in CC, although most pure GK use their dreads as anti-tank support instead so this is a minimal improvement. Grenades have little effect for GK vs walkers, since their main CC weapon is a S6 I think the justicars are still better off using CC attacks to kill a dread instead of meltabombs. 3 attacks with a 4+ to hit and 6+ to glance, or 1 attack hitting on a 6 glancing on a 4 and penetrating on a 5 or 6. Close call, might be worthwhile to try them, but since only Justicars can have meltabombs it's minimal.
Outnumbering is going to be difficult for GK. It means we need to have larger squads instead of more squads. With the expense of our troops, it means less flexibility since we will have fewer squads, but more durability with large squads. Also, fewer elites and heavy support. This is the toughest thing for GK ... but remember you need to lose CC for this to happen, and chances are with the new rules the GK should win unless really unlucky or really outnumbered. Also consider ... most of the CC units able to beat GK in CC also tend to have a higher I (wyches come to mind). This means that the GK actually gain from the sweeping advance rule since they don't have the possibility to be eliminated by the sweeping advance. I think a few extra, likely armor saveable, wounds is a fair trade-off to prevent auto elimination for losing a round of CC.
Makes Deep Strike more common, so takes away from the special rules that GK have being able to DS even if the mission doesn't allow it. Not too big a loss, but it is a loss. Escalation sounds neat, and makes our 2 mandatory GK Troop squads more resilient. However, also makes it difficult to come to grips with our opponents. However, I think this is a positive mission. It will aid our defense against tanks and artillery, especially on the first few turns until our DS units come on the board.
What about the "no assualt if heavy weapon fired" and shooting a psyCannon?
Does it count as a heavy weapon. (since when you fire half-range and less, it's "assault" in the codex)
That, and when they say 2" from a friendly model in B2B. Does that mean 2" from the back of the friendly model's base, or 2" from the B2B contact?
Thanks in advance,
Obviously if you fire the psycannon at full range it counts as heavy, otherwise it doesnt.Well, they should take 18 man squads instead.Still were not as screwed for the outnumbering rule as slaneesh which have to take 6man squads!
A Rhino? SLOTH!
I agree with Shadow. If you shoot the psycannon at longer than the assault 18" then it is considered a Heavy Weapon.What about the "no assualt if heavy weapon fired" and shooting a psyCannon?
Does it count as a heavy weapon. (since when you fire half-range and less, it's "assault" in the codex)Yes, 2" from the back of a friendly model's base that is in BTB contact. Not from the point of BTB contact itself.That, and when they say 2" from a friendly model in B2B. Does that mean 2" from the back of the friendly model's base, or 2" from the B2B contact?
Yes if you shoot a psdycannon at above 18" it counts as heavy but as you can only assualt the unit you shoot at there gona be a lot closer than that so the psycannon will count as assualt 3 or the enemy will be to far away to assualt!