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1) How many tactical space marines/scouts do you use minimal?
I posted roster for 5th edition with 50 tactical and zero scouts and all comments were, "this is too much 3*10 is optimum, try more elites, heavy support."If I had 30 marines, opponent shoot 4-5 per turn and don't own not enough to hold objectives in 66% of games.
2) Rocket lunchers are excelent and common...Why? exchange WS4 66% to hit for WS 2 33% and scatter. For orcs maybe but for space marines? If i have a rocekt luncher which second weapon i add for effective shooting on tanks and/infantry? is really clever to have 1 universal weapon or is better to have 2 weapons in the same squad for the same purpose?
3) Transports, are must...really? What about 33% more running marines for prices of rhino?
4) Devastators with misile launchers or heavy bolters oh yeah!...30-35 points for one guy+ponits for other 15 ponits guys as living shield? No thanks, i take terminator or double tacticals
5) Dreadnoughts rokcks...dont understand these guys. Antitank? Really no, heavyslot or fast attack is much better. Antinfantry? Smash one crap squad which opponent take me in way if i am able walk near and than what?, stay in open field with mark antitank shoot/assault here? Or drop pod? I think that main problem is that is in elite slot, not in other.
4) on one use scout bike squad..why what about their 1 free move after deployment?
Last edited by czechImenhotep; September 3rd, 2008 at 22:13.
First I split your quote up because it made it significantly easier to read and address.
Anyway for number one.
1. It depends on the point size. While troops are the main means for holding objectives. You still need the capability to kill things and to take your opponent out. Just sitting 50 bodies on an objective isn't going to win you the game. Especially when all they need to do, is have one single unit of -anything- six inches away. And it's contested.
30 bodies for 1500-1750 points in troops is fair. Because it gives you decent staying power. And the points left to actually diversify and build your army to accomplish something other then being a tar pit. My personal rule is 40% to 45% of points spent on troops.
2. Rocket Launchers are good and common for several reasons. One blast template weapons have taken a significant boost in fifth ed rules. The Frag missiles do not not need to roll to hit. And with BS4 the scatter distance is small. As well no partials means lots of models will get hit. While it's not great for MEQs it's a terrific means to be able to kill other infantry.
The Krak Missle is a MEQ killer, Str 8 will wound MCs pretty handily as well as kill all but the heaviest armor with a fair chance. The key is it's versatile, effective at what it does and CHEAP.
3. Depends on the situation here. Running is good but keeps you from shooting and is not always reliable you can roll poorly for your runs. Transports can get you to objectives or where they need to be quickly.
4. You pay a little more for the heavy weapons but that's four in one squad. The segeant is yes a shock buffer for the squad. It's about efficiency for gaining four heavy weapons for a lower price then four whole squads. Tell me, what will bolters do at over 24 inches? You're paying all those points for one tactical squad with one heavy weapon and then IF you spilt them into combat squads you have one weapon with four living shields. If not it's 9 Living shields. And if you move that heavy weapon becomes useless. I already explained why Missle Launchers are good. Heavy bolters mow down non MEQ infantry. It's a simple concept really the squad is designed for an objective and given the heavy weapons needed to fulfill that role.
5. Yes Dreadnoughts are amazing. They are tough due to the new tank rules. And can pack a ton of fire power. Assault Cannon and Heavy flamer for anti troop, str 10 power weapons for just about everything. And there is several ways to equip them. Even more in the new dex. Can't count how many times my dreads have tied up Elite troops and tore them asunder or kept them from my troops holding objectives. They make sense in an elite slot because they can fulfill several roles and Heavy is already overly filled up. It makes you think and take options.
6. I don't understand what you're trying to say here? All scouts get scout move and infiltrate.
Last edited by Mesi; September 4th, 2008 at 01:58.
I love me a venerable dreadnought in a drop pod with a heavy flamer
hmmm... toasty. Venerable means he has a pretty good chance of staying around for the next turn and being able to charge.
Dreadnoughts are amazing because they can shoot on the move (i personally prefer the assault cannon to everything unless i'm in desperate need of a lascannon as its so versitle with rending) and then charge a unit who most likely will not have an effective means of doing anything to armor 12. I'm talking lightning claw termies, chaos termies w/no fist (rare, but still) command squads, heavy weapons squads plus the ability to wreck vehicle with a foot to the rear.
MadLarkin said it best. A dreadnought in the right place is a real pain in the arse for the enemy. They make excelent targets too. Two dreadnoughts and annother armoured unit, like a pred, will give most opponents too many options to shoot at, which often ends in them shooting at each one every turn, reducing their chance to kill anything. And opponents shooting pointlessly at armour is an opponent not killing those 30men you seem to be worried about.
And going back to the 3x10man squads, if your playing a game of around 1500 points, i doubt very much that your opponent will field much more (unless its IG!), so dont worry about massing your troops.
Another wonderful thing about a rhino that the other lads failed to mention above is that you can hold an objective with a squad of troops inside the rhino, meaning you have the capture power of the squad, combined with the armoured survivability of the rhino, which by the way, costs 3.3marines, not 33%
People recomend the 4xmissile launcher devvie squads because of their flexibility. They are as good at taking out armour as they are at taking out men. 4xfrags at a well packed IG squad will reduce them to a crying wreck. 4xkraks at a HQ will surely knock at least one wound off the beast. 4xkraks at a vehicle will most likly leave it unable to shoot that next round - which is better than nothing, right?
I'm not a fan of HB's, but i did once turn the tide of a game against a necron player (my brother!) by rattling his squads with long ranged HB fire after he'd finished off my teleported termie squad.
Hope we help!
1.tactical squads are the holy grail of space marines they are hard to kill and are one of the most power full assets in warhammer 40k in my veiw you cant have to many i have an army with 6 full tac squads split into combat squads thats 12 scoring units and 12 targets to fire at and you can split your fire accordingly i would say though in a 1500 point list at least 4 tac squads.
2.the missile launchers are inaccurate but think if you have 4 in a devastator (i personally like a 5 man squad with 4 missiles) thats 4 great anti tank weapons that murder rhino equivalents and other tanks fall astray with 4 missile launchers hunting them down, the blast isnt great but there if you get slightly lucky they can decimate entire squads. in summary i love this weapon it is not ultimate at anti tank or anti infantry but its versatility at being great at both is the good part.
3. personally i have to agree with you slightly in the current sm codex they are overpriced but if they were dark angels prices i think there quite viable although i love to horde marines i think the protection of a tank can rely help plus if you ever fight tau an extra tank to tank shock never hurt. its personal preference some people love em some people don't.
4.i love devastators the 3 things i love are dreadnoughts tac squads and devastators i like as i said above a 5 man 4 missile squad its not to expensive and it hurts infantry and meq alike giving thal long range punch as long as you keep the out of danger then they will earn there points back
5. as i said above a big lover of dreadnoughts i like an asault canon and a close combat fits with a storm bolter or flamer (depending) i have the flamer if its going to be charging and the storm bolter if its holding back shooting i like this configuration it has the guns for anti infantry (and the fist) and the fist for anti tank.
4 or 6??? im totaly confused...
anyway have a good look at the codex and the advise you get here by the way i dont think term squads are over,y good so dont over use em.
Last edited by Hisop-1; September 5th, 2008 at 17:03.
1. i play 1500 points, and i have a minimum of 3 10-man squads... thats usually enough to put a hurtin on my enemies... and depending on the army im facing, ill usually put Missile Launcher in there. i usually also have a scout squad in there, to tie up objectives and annoy enemy squads.
2. I will always take a ML over any of the other heavy weapons, its so versatile. some people prefer having 'specialised' tactical squads, made for killing tanks or infantry... but i dont like that idea because its easy to get them stuck facing the wrong enemy (anti-infantry squad vs. a Leman Russ is never any fun). i have also debated putting a Multi-Melta in a tactical squad, since they seem pretty cheap if i remember correctly, and they give you a smaller edge over tanks than the Missile Launcher (if you can get in range).
3. i prefer tanks, and two of my 3 squads have a rhino. it really helps close the gap early in the game. even if it blows up later, as long as the troops get within bolter range, its serverd its purpose. give em smoke launchers. if the enemy ignores them, they can become a real nuisance driving around and shooting squads up with a pintle mounted storm bolter.
4. in my opinion, there is nothing that can compare to the mobile firepower of a Devastator Squad. and its cheaper than having 4 extra tactical squads to carry the extra heavy weapons. terminators are nice, but they are veeeery expensive, and it can be difficult for them to win their points back in a game.
5. dreadnoughts are awesome. i use one with an Assault Cannon and DCCW/Heavy Flamer. perfect for mowing down infantry, and lethal to tanks with the DCCW... my dreadnought always does an awesome job in every game i play.
6. ive never used scout bikes before... but i have used Space Marine bike squads, and they work very well against dug in enemies. every time i play against Imperial Guard, they just sit in one spot, dropping tank shells all over my men... the bikes let me zoom in and shred them to pieces before they can react. Land Speeders also work well in the same way.