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The Eldar race.
They may look mostly human, but do not be fooled - they are pure xenos, and should be eradicated wherever they may be found! If you can find them, that is...
Anyway, I've not had a huge amount of experiance playing opponents who field eldar armies, although there have been a couple of memorable games I'll draw upon later. But I am curious - who out there has any thoughts on how to tackle this foe?
Traditionally, the Eldar are the fastest moving army in the game, so how does the traditionally slowest army (the mighty Imperial Guard) handle them? That is, how do you handle them?
And is it any different in 5th edition compared to 4th? Why?
Do you have any favourite units, tactics, or just simply ideas to share? Are there any particular eldar units or tactics which we should fear more than others? Do you have any disparaging/jealous comments regarding annoying antigravity technology?
Everything Eldar is the go this week, guys! Let's disect this foul alien, and see what we can find...
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
Guns. Lots of them.
Seriously, I've only played one game in 5th versus Eldar and the only eldar unit that was alive by turn 2 was a squad of shining spears and a far seer. They are quite fragile, so even my mortars inflicted heavy casualties(well, 2-3 dead per turn). Their tanks are reasonably resilient now, but fortuned saves are always a pain.
I played Eldars in 4th ed. They are guerrilla warfare. They use the terrain as defense, the mobilty for chose where and when to hit, then retreat before the oponent cant strike back. Slow attrition. Like a swordman that trust more in speed than in armor. He sword dance around you, bleding you litle by litle. Less common is mechanized assault, elusive and fast transports, their assault units can destroy the support and HQ, they aim for a decisive strike in to your heart. They play sneaky, if they dont play sneaky, they die fast.
Basilisks and Hellhounds work better than LRBTs & Demolishers. The bright lance make Hig Armor useless, indirect fire and flamers cancel the advantage of terrain bloking LOS or providing cover saves.
"The only valid test is combat; the only valid result is victory"
Ardak Kumerian, Klingon Admiral.
Basically you get two kinds of Eldar - fast, sneaky little buggers, who try their utmost to control the game and grind you down bit by bit... and dead ones.
A good Eldar player will hug cover and terrain, giving you little chance of flushing them out with flashlights. They'll also snipe at you with every Guardsmans best friend, the Shuriken Cannon - and it will mess up the average line squad! You can also (more or less) gaurantee that they will manouver into positions where hth specialists can hit you without facing much shooting and their shooters can hammer you without facing much retaliation.
So how to deal with them? Well, it can be a bit of a chore, to be honest. The method that I use is to form a solid force with the majority of my forces (typically 3 command squads, 3 commissars, 3 psykers, 10 infantry squads, a LRBT and a DH Inquisitor Lord) and advance up the centre of the board slowly. As the main body of the force is advancing I drop Stormtroopers in behind the Eldar positions as the Stormtroopers can actually prove their use against the Eldar! This should be used to tie up things that can kill vehicles (that's bright lances to you and me) and during this time, I rush Hellhounds and/or Sentinels up the flanks. These things will usually die without earning their points back, but they will allow your main force to reach the enemy reasonably intact - so you will usually be able to swamp them with numbers. Support with indirect firing Basilisks and mortars and you should be ok. If you're lucky...
Aha. my speciality.
First: Allied GK Brother Captain with psychic hood. He's 81 points of LD10 Psychic hooding glory. Make him work for those doom and guides.
Second: I have a personal hatred of pathfinders. 2+ cover saves and pinning tests for your low LD troops, and they score to boot. Hellhounds are my new best friend. Deep striking remnants/comm
Third: Infiltrators, even disposable ones are a good pick. If he deploys a couple of W/Serpants and eldrad in one corner, intending to swap to the other side, deploy your men there and stop him. Or roll off to deny him the infiltrating rangers. Or just position yourself better.
Fourth: Basalisks. Jetbikes and skimmers like to hide behind cover whilst moving over to your side, so indirect fire is a good idea.
Fifth: Multilasered sentinals are good - S6 Instakills most multiwound eldar, and AV10 vs puny guardian/ranger strength is good for a laugh. Revel as your 40 point sentinal butchers 150 points of pathfinders in melee, with no chance of being stopped.
be wary of:
Lance weapons. Your High AV won't count for nothing against them. AP1 means +1 to roll on the damage chart.
Wraithlords. T8? How many wounds? Youll need alot of effort to shift that, and it's firing it's multiple High STR weapons at you the whole time, whilst moving.
Wave Serpants (especially bearing Fire Dragons as " Gifts")
Shoot everything that can possibly hurt them as soon as possible. Charge with the rest (By far the best way of killing them is in melee - A stormtrooper with a krak grenade is exactly the same rolls as a SM commander with one. ST's blow at melee, but free krak grenades shouldn't be ignored, or lt shaeffers men. If paying points, get a melta grenade for only 3 more points and be done with it. Charge with sentinals if you can, Their rear armour is AV10 and doesn't have any annoying rules. (It's popular to whizz the transports up a side of the board, and avoid the majority of your firepower. Outflanking Rough riders and/or sentinals do well while charging them. If you can phsically block their one exit point at the rear, then they have a really big problem.)
Warlocks on Jetbikes with a fortuneseer. - Fear this lot, for they are mean. long charge, 3+ re-rolled invun save, and against tanks S9, with 2D6 penatration (If Memory serves, or that may be the Fortuneseer. They're just really dirty). If correctly placed they can charge 2-3 units, (3" wide flying base, 2" between models, 6x bikes = 33" wide charge front. (not very sporting or in the spirit really I shall add) and every glance / penetrate adds to the combat total. Shoot lots and lots and lots of your lighter weapons at them. Charge them, throwing away squads to just keep them busy. Ignore them and destroy the (small) remainder of his army, safe in the knowledge that one disgusting unit can't destroy your 30+ kp's, can it?
Last edited by stayscrunchyinmilk; September 10th, 2008 at 15:43.
Adeptus Mechanicus Marines: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1655065
Those bloody, stinking, blankitty-blank-blank-blanking Eldar.
I've mentioned my games against the Eldar Guy before (He's the same guy who didn't understand why I put all the equipment and packs and track links and everything on the outside of my tanks, and was in the process of talking trash about the look of the model when one of the guys walked over and said "HEY! I was a tanker for 10 years! That looks just like one of ours!"), and how the first time against him, he barely, just barely, snatched victory out of my grasp by pure stupid luck. He tried flanking me with his Harlequins that battle, and they were introduced to the Burninators for it....his pathfinders were pinned down by my mortars and snipers...He had a wave serpent that was shot down by my guardsmen's rocket launcher and lascannon filled with banshees (They were the game winners: we were playing quarters, and they just barely managed to contest BOTH of my quarters, leaving him with one quarter uncontested). And my two leman russes and basilisk managed to keep a good third of his points pinned down behind a big ridge, because there was too much of a no-man's land for them to cross.
All in all, I think I did fairly well for that fight, despite my losses. (1 russ, my command squad, my stormtroopers, and a chimera.)
Second fight, I brought my mechanized list...only to be confronted with Escalation rules.
Little note: Mechanized Guard and Escalation means lots of guardsmen fed piecemeal to the eldar. It was a terrible fight, and finally, when all I had left was a single immobilized hellhound with no main gun, I surrendered.
Big lessons I learned about them between those fights:
1. Dig in.
Find a spot. Dig in. Make them come to you...either by giving them bait (such as a juicy unit left out in a really bad position) or by flushing them out with indirect fire.
2. Use Snipers.
Pathfinders are afraid of guard snipers. Don't ask why, don't ask how...they just are.
3. Fire For Effect.
Artillery is your friend. There's a reason why it's called "King of Battle."
I don't care what your holofields say I see...and neither do my templates.
5. Heavy Weapon Squads/Platoons
3-9 lascannons or Missile launchers say one way or another, your skimmer is going to hit the ground hard and fast.
And those are my impressions.
Usually I just stick my cameoline tanith trooper in cover and shoot the crap out of eldar. they're fast, but they can't outrun bullets.
Since fifth edition I've adopted "true" tanith battle tactics. e.g. outflank whole platoons. In both my 2000 pt list and 2500 pt list I have two min. platoons who outflank (3 flamers, medic; meltagun line; flamer line) with two armored fist squads who start on board. I push my chimeras on either side of the board (one has improved comm, if had pts both would) to pick up the command squad just in case I'm out of position.
This is my normal battle tactic and it works well vs most opponents. However against eldar it's especially good. This is because the two armored fist squads deploy out of the transports with a grenade launcher and missile launcher. In my 2500 pt I also have 3 leman russ's on board too. This takes care of the center of the board, forcing them to hide from my bullets along the sides. Then theres the fact that most eldar weaponry is short ranged. Fire dragons especially.
Whenever the eldar try to avoid the majority of my army and take out the chimeras they're usually pretty close to the edge of the board. Here's where 2 outflanking platoons (sometimes also my vets and command platoon, in 2500 pts also 2 autocannon sentinels and a heavy flamer sentinel) comes in. I'm outflanking so much I have a high chance of getting something in the right place to toast some eldar
Most Notable Achievements:
Killed a Revenant Titan in one shot.
Killed 900 pts worth of Blood Angels in 2 turns while only loosing 4 pts.
The thing about eldar jetbikes is that they're basically T3 marines with less numbers. Apply plasma/dakka accordingly.
Most Notable Achievements:
Killed a Revenant Titan in one shot.
Killed 900 pts worth of Blood Angels in 2 turns while only loosing 4 pts.
Ok, I've played quite a few times against the Eldar and I find that if their plans come to be then your done for. I often have to put up with a hole line of marching Wraithguards accompanied by a spirit host (who confer a 5+ cover save) and Eldrad Ulthran. In front of them is the avatar. So unless I get the first turn and blast him to death in the first turn, the avatar gets fortuned and becomes near impossible to kill.
Also, I really used to hate the serpent, falcon, prism tanks in 4e edition because of the fast skimmer that reduced all damage to glancing combined with holo-field. The result? Instant microwavable fluff in a can. In 5e, there much less of a problem since they can't move has much.
For most aspect warriors, Hellhounds can take care of them exept maybe for scorpions and warp spiders. That's usually when Tank fire comes in.
Althought in a recent game against the eldar in a capture objective mission, I went with a maximum of troops all carrying lascannons with only a few chimeras and it got me another win.
All around, they can be really tricky but a mistake on there side can cost them dearly.
Imperial Guard: 3000 pts
Chaos Daemons: 1000 pts
I have tit all experience against Eldar proper, but since the topic isI am going to wade in with my less limited experience against the Eldar's spiky cousins, the Dark Eldar.Originally Posted by Cadaver Junkie
Which is still an edition out of date but nevermind (which is less out of date than their codex mark you). I have arrogance to make up the difference.
Firstly, the DE could have been designed specifically to violate Guard armies, the Splinter Cannon and Dark Lance do a number on us and then some. They are also monstrously fast and have some frankly sweet close combat units. Yeah....
However, should your force find itself under attack by the piratical denizens of Commoragh all is not lost because they are severly lacking in staying power. Their heaviest armour value is 11 and, while the best armour save is a 3+ it is found only in the Lord's retinue and Taloses. And as far as fire magnets go, those guys are it.
Target priority is where I have found games against Dark Eldar are won and lost. Everything in the army is easy enough to kill - if you can hit it. Heavy Bolters are your friend, with the occasional Autocannon. Bring down his Ravager (either a tank buster or infantry killer par exellence) or Ravagers quickly with your Autocannon and get your Heavy bolters on his Raiders, shoot the hell out of those transports, especially the one with his Lord and co riding on it.
Okay, once they are slowed down they are still fast, so dont relax just yet. Hammer any units equipped for close combat quickly, especially the Lord and his retinue, these are one of the nastiest CC HQ's in the game, dont let them do what they do best, kill them the turn after you have blown up their transport. If you got the second turn, you have my sympathies, you could well be in serious trouble at this point, especially if you were unlucky with the bringing down of his transport and didnt kill it until there wasnt much left to shoot at the unit itself.
Next, any other fast stuff, Blaster toting Reaver Jetbikes are capable of doing your Tanks a lot of no good if they get close enough, and with their speed, they can get close enough with worrying ease. Heavy Bolters will still ignore their save unless they turbo-boosted and if they did that they cant shoot that turn. kill them anyway.
If he bought any stationary Warrior squads with Dark Lances these should be hit with any of your longer ranged weaponry if you have much in the way of armour. If you didnt, feel free to ignore them for a while.
Now, fast stuff gone, vehicles gone, his Lord gone and his long ranged AT gone, life is good. Unless he brought a Talos to the party. Do not let this get close to your lines, it is Lasproof, CC proof and rather nasty. Kill it with any low AP weaponry you have. Then shoot it some more to make sure.
But most importantly, kill his Lord, fear the Splinter Cannon.
The name refers to facial hair, not playing style.Originally Posted by A news vendor's stand, London, June 1940