Tank hunting Canoness now that 5th ed is here... How effective are they? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Insert Witty Comment Here Goblin's Avatar
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    Tank hunting Canoness now that 5th ed is here... How effective are they?

    Basic set up as per usual tank hunting canoness:
    Canoness
    -Evicerator
    -Inferno Pistol
    -Jump Pack
    -Cloack of St. Aspira
    -(sometimes even a Mantle of Ophelia and/or rosarius)

    That is roughly 125pts...

    Now that 5th ed is here, I have done some searching, and found little discussion about this...

    Since IC can no longer hide and be un-targeted, how much effectiveness do these lone stars still have at getting in untouched and destroying vehicles? I assume they did not loose much. Seeing as they still have their good save, mixed with being a tiny target that can easily use terrain to hide behind, and well The spirit of the martyr act of faith can be a big help too, this character still seems like a cool option..

    I still don't quite understand how terrain works now...

    However, we do now have run, which means, in a given turn, the canoness can move about 13-18 inches in the first turn or two before they are in range to shoot/charge anything, This will see that usually second turn, you are shooting and assaulting a tank...

    1st turn, move about 13-18 inches
    2nd turn, move your 12 inches, shoot, assault.

    by the end of the second turn movement phase, you have moved about 25-30 inches.... If that isnt enough to put you within range the infernot pistol + assault, I dont know what is... I still forsee that this is a good option for 2nd + tank kills, reliably. being that they also strike rear armour no matter where they assault... This is all adding to more of a benefit then before.

    Yes, they are targeted a bit easier.. If you are not careful enough... And yes, using these guys does require a little more care now days, they can easily destroy any tank in their way, usually reliably, though against all 14 armour, like a land raider, they will still have a little bit of trouble, but I guess we'll see!!!!

    What do you guys think, rolling with 2 of these guys for 125 a pop is worth it nowadays for witch hunters? Worst case scenario, they confuse the enemy enough to get your guys a little farther up without being shot as much.

    Lets discuss.
    -Goblin


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  3. #2
    LO Zealot gauss_storm's Avatar
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    I've play tested something like this with a seraphim squads with 2 inferno pistols and a eviscerator. It works ok, the squads can kill MEQs and do pretty decently in close combat. But cannonesses you don't really want they're primary cool to be anti tank. You play alot of points for them to be good in close combat when for the price of what you listed can buy you a exorcist (give or take a few points)

    But the eviscerator is my favorite weapon for the cannoness purely cause if can do both anti tank and anti infantry very well. It's much more flexible than a blessed weapon.


  4. #3
    Member Elric of Grans's Avatar
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    I have not had much success with her in anti-tank, but I think that has a lot to do with my opponents doing absolutely everything they can to keep her away from their armour. Since she is the only (non-vehicle) unit I have yet fielded that they respect/fear, they happily devote large numbers of infantry to acting as a deterrent: if I use her against the vehicle, I will receive a massive charge that will see there be enough attacks to get through her 2+. Because of this, (for me) she actually acts better at protecting the rest of my army. If they are trying to keep her away, they are not attacking my other forces. Then again, I probably need to start winning before I try bragging about this. Having them dedicate half their army to my Canoness, then lose my forces to the remainder does not make me look too good

  5. #4
    The Biker Marine SmokWawelski's Avatar
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    The only problem is that moving her in such fashion (straight line?) does not make it easy to hide her, and so you need to use Faith from the 1st turn, and after she hits the lines, she is by herself (unless you run her with some Seras). As Elric said, your enemy will divert some serious firepower to bring her down, so that should allow the rest of your army to advance mostly unharmed, yet still seems to be a risky business to race her forward like that...

  6. #5
    Senior Member farmpunk's Avatar
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    I've not tried the anti-tank Canoness with Evisc. I know a lot of people really like the Str doubling of the Evisc, but I find my cannoness laying into Heavy Infantry and command squads much more often than I send her to Kill tanks.

    I use a SoB squad with meltas in a rhino, Seraphim with Inferno pistols, or Exorcists for anti-tank. I have started giving out Inferno pistols sometimes to my cannoness, and that's not bad. I tend to use the jumpy cannoness as Counter-assault.

    I also find it hard to give up the Blessed Weapon, and the versatility it brings when coupled with faith.

    I'd be concerned with running a solo jump pack across the board with I1, even if it does have a 2+ save. It's not hard to throw a lot of 6str shots at her to instakill 130+pts. even with a 4+ cover or 2+ armor /inv.
    all it takes is one chimera multilaser to punch past her armor, or 1 Eldar Str6 shot.


    I'd be running her with support, like Seraphim, and split her off at the last second.

    I don't think 5th ed killed the lone IC running around the board by any means. I think it makes people have to rethink how they run their solo IC's

  7. #6
    Senior Member Red Zinfandel's Avatar
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    For the reasons that Eric stated above, I mostly agree that tank-hunting should be among her last priorities. I would not take the Inferno Pistol on the Cannoness for the following reasons:

    - Seraphim get free twin-linking on their IPs at BS4, which is better than Cannoness' BS5;
    - Seraphim have better movement with their hit-n-run;
    - Seraphim can better withstand both high-volume and high-str shooting attacks because their wounds are distributed, which grants immunity to the Instant-Death trump, and also permits the possibility of "stacking", which can negate a received wound.


    I try to use the Cannoness to her strengths in descending order.
    - Character Killer;
    - Elite/Small unit Interceptor;
    - Morale Booster (for the lilly-livered);
    - Protector/Martyr of your scoring squads

    I'm not opposed to giving her an Eviscerator.
    I like that weapon. And if a vehicle should be stupid
    enough to present opportunity, she might seize it.
    Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70

  8. #7
    Insert Witty Comment Here Goblin's Avatar
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    Say you devote both your HQ slots to this role then... Having two of them... Being that 1 is scary enough and the opponent will devote at least a quarter to half their force to prevent against this... Having two, on seperate sides of the board, if you are running some strong units below, this might pose a good destraction / threat.


    If 125pts of canoness can distract 200-500 points of anything for 1-3 turns, I see that as a definite make back her points idea...

    When I said second turn tank kill, I was of course speaking of ideal conditions. Obviously this will rarely happen, and it may end up being 3rd or 4th turn by the time you get her to assault and kill that tank....

    As for removing the inferno pistol, I am talking about using her as strictly tank hunting role. So the extra xx points for the pistol is far worth it as I see it.

    I guess It all depends on how much terrain there is... Certainly, if there is no terrain on the board, the cannoness (or two) would get eaten alive pretty fast...

    Anyways, i'm happy to learn that an opponent would spend at least half their force diverted to get rid of a flying tank hunting cannoness... Seeing as how I run a lot of grey knights, and ISTs.... once I get in range of assault with the grey knights, most tanks I wont have a problem with anyways... and not to mention I run plasma ists... so all in all, I guess it all depends... But for now, being that they can reliably kill tanks, have great speed, and can make a HUGE distraction, I think they are perfectly suited for tank hunting / fear inducint support.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Lord Scave's Avatar
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    I personally run my canoness with a well rounded set up

    Canoness: 196
    Inferno Pistol
    Eviscerator
    Melta Bomb
    Frag Grenade
    Litanies of Faith
    Mantle of Ophelia
    Rosarius
    Cloak of St. Aspira
    Jump Pack

    ya shes a bit spendy but after adding two to her strength the eviscerator doubles it to S10 which means she barely needs to roll anything to pop even a Land Raider with that 2D6. The pistol lets her heat ray and get that easy penetration, cant tell you how many vehicles ive killed with just the pistol. Frag lets her charge targets behind cover, jump pack gets her to her target fast, cloak, rosarius, and mantle keep her alive. So much so that i just played a game against orks today and she was charged on turn one and didnt die until bottom of turn four. she can kill a character pretty well if they dont run with a retinue. if they do have your support pick them off while she pops a few tanks. Ya true the Eviscerator drops her to I1 but with a 2+ invul she is nearly impossible to kill which will allow her to attack back with at least 3 S6 or S10 attacks.

    Suffer not the heretic. That's right, I'm looking at you Astartes Librarians.

  10. #9
    Member Elric of Grans's Avatar
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    S8, not 10. You double, then add two.

    I have personally not found the Inferno Pistol worth the points when you already have the Evicerator, but that is just me. On the other hand, the Melta Bombs just seem like overkill as they offer nothing over what you are already getting with the Evicerator. Likewise, the Rosarius seems like a waste of points. Sure, it is a little insurance for that 1/12 chance you fail your Spirit of the Martyr roll, but, failing the worst luck in the world, your Canoness will have already done the damage by then.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Lord Scave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elric of Grans View Post
    S8, not 10. You double, then add two.

    I have personally not found the Inferno Pistol worth the points when you already have the Evicerator, but that is just me. On the other hand, the Melta Bombs just seem like overkill as they offer nothing over what you are already getting with the Evicerator. Likewise, the Rosarius seems like a waste of points. Sure, it is a little insurance for that 1/12 chance you fail your Spirit of the Martyr roll, but, failing the worst luck in the world, your Canoness will have already done the damage by then.
    The Faith boosts her personel strength of S3 to S5, the weapon only doubles her strength. If she was to say drop her eviscerator (i know it cant really happen put work with me) and it was counted at S8 then she would have effectively only gotten a +1 to her strength. This being said to get her +2 it would have to be on her normal strength. Besides the Eviscerator says that it doubles its users strength to a max of 10 right? well it never said that it comes before additions to base strength. it makes no sense to have the canonesses arm essentially become stronger but the weapon holds her back.

    in summary, SHE is boosted to S5 then the weapon boosts her to S10. Ive talked with a couple veteran sister players and they all agree that it can work.

    The Melta Bombs are there incase you either dont use the faith or it fails. on base stats its better to use the bombs over the eviscerator unless against a walker.

    honestly i was relooking at the rosarius as i rarely let my canoness get into trouble where she needs an invul without getting her a 2+ so i agree i could probably drop that off.

    Suffer not the heretic. That's right, I'm looking at you Astartes Librarians.

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