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Ok i'll be clear games day rocks, the proof, the NEW codex space marines sitting infront of me.
Is it bad for any particular race, NO.
Is it terribly over power, NO.
Are there any units that can slaughter armies on there own, NO.
We getting the hint. If not this is for you:
THEY ARE BALANCED!!
The new codex is good but you will find that for most perks the space marines have there is a downside, like the Vanguard Veterans, yes they can assualt when they deepstrike but, they are slightly less points than a terminator when given jump packs and they can't shoot or run when they deepstrike.
The main space marine advantage is choice, they have a huge range of different units all with a very wide selection of special rules, and this makes the space marines slightly over powered on one occasion and that is when you know what your facing this is due to some specilized units that will work very well against some races but may prove less than usefull
against others. So in arranged games such as campaigns and those between friends they will have an advantage due to some cool new special rules but its not enough of a power bonus to win them the game instantly.
Give us an example i hear many cry and so be it....
The land speeder storms special rule is helpful against daemons, and boy do i mean it.
Enemy icons/teleport homers dont work if its within six inches of the storm. Also any unit deepstrike within 6" of it scatter 4d6.
Its not over powered as you do have to deepstrike ridiculously close to it for it to work so it is mainly a defense unit as you can use it to cover certain area's from the enemy but likewise it is easy to avoid.
And as i said earlier you have to know that your playing daemons which isnt to bad.
Last edited by unholyheretic; September 19th, 2008 at 22:56.
Warning this user is totally insane...
Yes, we know they're balance. And yes, we know there will be people crying about how cheesey marines are no matter how balanced they are. And we all know Vanguard are overcosted, at least when compared to honour guard.
No offence, but I don't see how this "startling revelation" deserves its own topic.
40K armies: Tyranids (2001), Space Wolves (2008), Sisters of Battle (2011)
Current Rep: 1337
Land Speeder Storm + Librarian re-roll passed invul saves = pwnt Daemons
Add in allied Mystics and you can just call it a day.
All in all, I'd say the marine book is quite well balanced. But we will see abuses and power combos (the aforementioned Daemon counter, poor guy may as well not show up and save some time). Vanguard and Locator Beacons spring to mind, as well as Scout Bikes' cluster bombs and 1st turn charge. Or just Sternguard spam+Kantor.
It's inevitable, every codex has something like it (except maybe Dark Angels, but I suppose if they're so stupid they can't figure out how to turn on a storm shield they can't figure out a powerful build). Play your game and move on.
Units alone are balanced.
Thunder hammer termies with 2+/3+ save have right price, but i think their only problem is possibility to take 3 squads of them, against some armies it could be bane
Predators are a little bit cheap
But 5th edition rules+new sm codex is reason is why i started with 40k, and right, new codex is very well done.
Off course the codex is gonna attract scream of cheese, it's been clear ever since the ork codex that codex creep is coming back, it's obvious with the orks, deamons and now the SM codex, besides I give it a month before effectieve anti-sm tactics arrive.
What worries me is the I can run away whenever they like rule.
I play chaos, and having to deliberately not fire at the squads i want to charge (just incase it causes them a moral check), means i might as well not bother with special weapons in any unit i wish to go on the offensive with.
has anybody checked out the thunderfire gun? its crazy cheap and super effective. for 100 points you get a techmarine and a weapon that fires 4! small blast templates. take three of those and it gets pretty broken. as far as the storm sheild goes on termies there way under priced. it used to be that power fists and plasma weapons were effective against termies. with a 3+ invuln there is no stoping them anymore, barring the worst rolls ever. i could go on but from reading the previous posts im on the minority side and it seems ike no one agrees with me.
Never give up. Never give up. HIT, HIT, HIT, HIT!
to be honest greeklake its crap, the gun itself dies if you get 1 glancing or pen hit and it has an armour of ten....
And the guy manning it is a techmarine but only has 1 wound so yeh it is a good weapon but really sucks at taking fire, is it worth 100pts maybe, personally i'd rather take a whirl wind for 85 and hide it....
Warning this user is totally insane...
Thunderfire is AV10 and any damaging hit destroys it. The only place you'll see it used is in a piece of terrain fortified by the Techmarine (3+ cover anyone?).
3+ invulnerables mean nothing to normal weaponry. Hit assault termies with loads of normal shots from bolters, shootas, even lasguns and they fail their 2+ save same as always. As an added bonus, they won't even have storm bolters or assault cannons to shoot back with.
The whole metagame is shifting away from low shot high AP weaponry to massed fire. Increased amounts of cover, horde armies becoming popular, price hikes on AP2 weaponry, and the new storm shield reinforce the idea that volume of fire is king. Keep your meltaguns around for blowing up tanks and go for weapons that put out either a blast or a lot of hits.
Combat Tactics has a very real change of backfiring by getting caught and suffering no retreat! wounds. It's a nice trick, but hardly game-breaking.
Also, Daemons = codex creep? How can an army that hasn't existed before be stronger than its previous codex? Or how can daemons even be considered overpowered?
I don't think the regular termies are worth it anymore, other than being a delivery system for some overpriced weapons that are available on other units. Compare them to thunderhammer assault termies. You trade a storm bolter for a better pfist and a 3+ invul instead of your normal 5+. That's why I went online and got 5 hammers/sheilds for my black reach termies.
"Science has made us gods even before we are worthy of being men." - Jean Rostand