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Okay, I've read alot of posts on here recently but none of them have addressed my issue with this wargear. I've read the whole issue with the book vs. Culexus and Pariahs, but this is something different.
This last weekend I literally had a technicality beat me. I was playing a 500 pt battle with a Chaos player, here's my list:
Eviscerator, Book of Lucius, Plasma pistol
2 squads of sisters:
27 sisters, 2 Veterans w/eviscerator, 2 melta guns, 2 heavy flamers = 499
My opponent had:
10 traitor marines
5 raptors w/champion
Huron Blackheart special character w/ 3 terminator retinue
I ended up killing 4 raptors and 2 terminators, but still lost the combat by 2 kills. And according to the 5th edition rules (just like old school 2nd edition) Morale check in combat is modified by the difference in casualties.
So my question is: Does the Book of Lucius count as being able to ALWAYS USE THE BEARER'S UNMODIFIED LD? Including morale checks for combat? If it would have worked, my 2D6 roll of 9 would have kept my guys in the fight. And my army wouldn't have fled only to be chased down by the last standing raptor. He wiped out the remaining 15 sisters and my HQ with that pursuit BTW. STOOPID!!! ARRRGHHH!!!
Any one had to address this technicality yet?
Last edited by Dream240; September 22nd, 2008 at 18:28.
Thats WHY the book is so good, because you take combat morale test at the unmodified Ld as that is its effect
Okay well I just called GW and they basically said that it's always testing against the bearer's UNMODIFIED LD, but since it's only a 6" range it usually only applies to the unit the character is with.
So just to make it clear, combat result modifiers do not modify the LD of a character with the book of St. Lucius that's taking a morale check for losing combat.
Isn't the verbage units within 6 inches? Because if the cannoness was in the brawl with the squad there should be no problem with them being able to test on the Cannoness' Ld. Since you didn't state where she was in reference to the squad I can't agree one way or the other. More explanation on the scenerio would help greatly.
Then again I also love the fact the verbage also says "may". Many a squad I love to see flee so it can rapid fire into the idiot assault troops.
What's the confusion about? There were modifiers when you lost combat in 4th Ed too. The word Always has a remarkably clear and unambiguous definition! =)
I'm raising the issue because I've never used The Book until recently. And I'm still new to playing with Witch hunters. I've been an imperial guard player for a while. Honestly I never really read the rules for it until about a month ago.
As for the scenario, yes my canoness was with one of the squads, and the battle turned out to be him assaulting that squad with Raptors and HQ, and then I counter charged with the other squad next turn. I survived the first round thanks to Invulnerable faith saves!
My strategy was very sound, it really came down to him making all his damn 5+ invulnerable saves with the terminators. I swear he's got the luckiest dice rolls I've ever seen!!
Luck or not you would have passed that morale save and the game probably would have been much different. However since it does say may choose to use the character's unmoddified leadership... you chose not to because you didn't understand the rule and you lost.
If the other two squads were in the melee though. how did the raptors pursue? If you were in a mass melee they can't break the fight to chase if there are still other units actively fighting. Hit and Run would have been after the unit broke combat and can't be used to start a new assault. So, honestly I don't know think your squad should have been able to be destroyed even when it broke and ran.
Though once again I wasn't there so I can't be 100% sure I am right.
He charged me with both squads, killed 6. I killed 3 raptors and a terminator. But he killed 6 SOBs, so I tested and passed.
Next combat I counter-charged with other squad, killed 1 more raptor and another terminator, but he killed 4 SOBs. I lost again, by two. Tested failed.
Both squads failed separately, since the terminators can't make sweeping advances, the lone raptor took the iniative test and we tied, tie goes to winner. Raptor killed them all.
Also I'm just curious, but I'm sure I was supposed to use the most common IV(3), not the Canoness' IV of 4.
So yeah I used the book wrong. Won't be making that mistake again.
Also the raptor should not have been allowed to break combat to sweep your other fleeing sisters since there was still one of your squads in the assault. What you opponent did was just straight illegal.
You use the initiative modifier of the slowest member of the squad. I am pretty sure you use base initiative though so no worries for people with power fists. I will double check this on my lunch break when I can go to my car.
Yeah the book of St Lucious is completely worth the points. It with some faith invuln saves in the later rounds has allowed me to keep abaddon tied up for an entire game.