5th Ed Compatible: Number Crunching Heavy Weapon Squads - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Experimental Strategist Sun the Unwilling's Avatar
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    5th Ed Compatible: Number Crunching Heavy Weapon Squads

    After posting the Support Squads Tactica, I began to think about statistics. So which weapons to take for your support squads? 4+ is the common cover save now with the 5th ed.

    3 Heavy Bolters with Sharpshooters
    GEQ 4.375 MEQ 1.166 TER 0.583
    --4+ 2.187

    3 Autocannons with Sharpshooters
    GEQ 2.916 MEQ 0.972 TER 0.486
    --4+ 1.458

    3 Missile Launcher (Krak) with Sharpshooters
    GEQ 1.458 MEQ 1.458 TER 0.243
    --4+ 0.729

    3 Lascannons with Sharpshooters
    GEQ 1.458 MEQ 1.458 TER 0.972(5+ invulnerable)
    --4+ 0.729

    3 Mortars/Missile Launcher (Frags) with 9 hits
    GEQ 4.000 MEQ 1.500 TER 0.416
    --4+ 3.000

    Summary:
    Anti-infantry, take Mortars over Heavy Bolters
    Anti-infantry with light anti tank and monsterous creatures take autocannons
    Anti-tank and terminator, also taking out feel no pain stuff like the plague marines, take lascannons.

    For a well rounded Fire support selection for 1 HQ Choice in a 1-1.5k game.
    -2 Lascannon anti-tank squads
    -2 Mortar Squad
    -1 Autocannon squad.

    I will always take at least 2 lascannons anti-tank squads. Since they share the same spot as missile launchers, I will forgo them for more flexibility against terminators and high av stuff.

    Mortar squads accomplishes the anti-infantry role better than both the Heavy bolter and Missile Launcher (frag) and cheap, requires no line of sight and 48".

    The Autocannon has blown up more skimmers than anything else I have ever used. A av10-11 vehicle's bane. Also can turn to infantry or high T targets without losing efficiency. 48" too.

    For more tips on using them check out the Tactica itself!
    http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1273982

    "Hard pounding, gentlemen: but we shall see who can pound the longest."
    Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

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  3. #2
    Mr Commisar to you Commisarlestat's Avatar
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    Good work however you are missing something vital which really dumbs down lascannons and that is the cost.

    A lascannon is as much as a plasma missile combo so this should be taken into account. Lascannons really should be avoided as anti infantry even termies, use special weapons such as plasma and melta against them

    Now I realise this is in support squads so lascannons come out a bit better and as such it isn't too bad but this does need to be compared to line squads effectiveness and again their points bias etc.

    Anyway good work rep for you!

    A

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    I dont know what GEQ and TER stand for
    "If marines fart, grots die in their millions." -Red Orc

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    Member Sorrowsky's Avatar
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    GEQ i believe is Guard Equilaviant Save Type Models, So basically 5+ save models, as for TER stands for Terminators Save Models with 2 + save. Correct me if i'm wrong
    Last edited by Sorrowsky; October 22nd, 2008 at 22:39. Reason: oops typo

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  6. #5
    Mr Commisar to you Commisarlestat's Avatar
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    I believe they are gaurd equivalent (GEQ) and terminators (TER)

    A

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    Good work, but I have a query.

    Does this apply to the fire support squads or to individual heavy weaps as well, like on line squads etc?

    In my line squads I have GLaunchers and Heavy Bolters as of now. Despite the math hammer pointing to mortars-I still think Id prefer the AP4 and higher strength of the HB over the mortars.

    Yeah, cover saves abound but chances any squad that is going to try to close with my line squads is going for HtH and not a firefight because youd have to be real stupid to sit mid distance and try to outshoot guard. HB gives me the a cheap weapon that bring down a large variety of opponents. Autocannons on all my line squads gives me less shots at a poor BS and for more points.

    however, for the HQ Fire support I can see the advantage of mortars and autos over HB. And with my Mordians I always run two squads of LC. Cheers!

    Missle Launchers in my opinion are a jack of all trades, shitty at all kind of weapon. It cant really hurt big stuff esp Fexes, Wraithlords, Preds with any efficiency, while the frag round is vastly inferior to mortars (pinning/indirect) or HB/Auto (Higher Strength and better AP). Better to simply get lascannons and then Anti personnel weaps.

  8. #7
    Experimental Strategist Sun the Unwilling's Avatar
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    Individual weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffstalker View Post
    Good work, but I have a query.

    Does this apply to the fire support squads or to individual heavy weaps as well, like on line squads etc?

    In my line squads I have GLaunchers and Heavy Bolters as of now. Despite the math hammer pointing to mortars-I still think Id prefer the AP4 and higher strength of the HB over the mortars.
    If you are talking about individual weapons, divide the number by 3. The thing with Heavy bolters is that you will only hit 1.5 guys and with a mortar, you auto hit at least 2-3. When you factor in wounds and that most opponents are 3+ saves, your ap4 is not going to matter. More hits that translates to more wounds matter more.
    "Hard pounding, gentlemen: but we shall see who can pound the longest."
    Arthur Wellesley, Duke of Wellington

  9. #8
    Senior Member stayscrunchyinmilk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sun the Unwilling View Post
    If you are talking about individual weapons, divide the number by 3. The thing with Heavy bolters is that you will only hit 1.5 guys and with a mortar, you auto hit at least 2-3. When you factor in wounds and that most opponents are 3+ saves, your ap4 is not going to matter. More hits that translates to more wounds matter more.
    Not dissing the magnificent work above, but how many did you say are auto hit by mortars?

    Mortars do scatter 2/3rds of the time and if indirect the full 2D6. You can try to march them back towards the intended target of course which makes up for a bit of accuracy. But 9x automatic hits is a bit too generous IMHO.
    - Being able to fire Indirectly is a nice bonus to keep in mind when comparing between HB's and Mortars, of course.

    Heavy Bolters also have the advantage of being S5, and will wound more, and be able to wound some things mortars can't (a wraithlord for example). They can also threaten light vehicles, where a mortar can't.

    I'm not surprised that mortars kill more (guard equivalant) than HB's, but do question what numbers you put in, due to the above statement. It'd be down to being able to fire regardless, including squads behind cover, but not in it. (Thus no 4+)

    I do think you've also made an arithmatical error here:

    3 Mortars/Missile Launcher (Frags) with 9 hits
    GEQ 4.000 MEQ 1.500 TER 0.416
    --4+ 3.000

    as GEQ 4.000 against a 4+ save is 2.000, not 3.000 as stated.

    In line squads the Heavy Bolter is superior - an individual mortar can't "march back" like 3x in a support squad, and if your squad is firing you should have LOS. Massed fire from lasguns from your line squad can still be devastating, and using them to do so is a good idea. It's more efficient to put complimentary weapons into the line squads, and a Plasmagun / Heavy Bolter combo is cheap and good (There's nothing wrong with the others, but it's a good old favorite)

    Also, in line squads there's a different price for your HW's than in support squads. In support squads heavy weapons are 5 more each (bar lascannons) than in line squads.
    (Support squads are still worth it as they allow you to condense your Heavy Weapons though)
    Last edited by stayscrunchyinmilk; October 24th, 2008 at 12:02.

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