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Just a little rules-lawyering thought, spurred on by a discussion in another thread. This is a question I have heard from time to time in this forum. Do the GK benefit from upgrades in the new SM codex?
I say yes. My reason? I noticed that the GK are specifically mentioned in the new SM codex as a special type of SM. I feel that this inclusion can be used to justify the assertion that GK can benefit from the new rules/ weapon stats in the SM codex.
What I mean here is that by stating that the GK are Space Marines within the context of the new codex, that would imply that GK can benefit from the weapon stats and descriptions in the SM codex as well. The main thing here is the assault cannon profile, the power of the machine spirit rule for land raiders, Storm shield and shooting attacks, and other common weapons and wargear between the two lists.
Of course, I have always thought this was the intended case. Most of the people I game with agree as well, and it's a house rule. Yet couldn't you argue that this strengthens that argument in a more general sense?
Just interested in your thoughts...
Last edited by RJSuperfreaky; October 28th, 2008 at 13:53.
Marion: You're not the man I knew ten years ago.
Indiana: It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage.
For the last time, there are
NO FEMALE SPACE MARINES!!!!!
Just agree with your opponent(s) one way or the other before the game starts.
If your opponent wants to play by the new book then fine. If they want to play by the DH codex then fine - just remind them that they can't pick and mix.
Old rules DH get glance-only smoke launchers, 'slain outright' force weapons, unlimited range psychic hoods, and so on.
The lose a little LR capacity and rhino flexibility
IIRC the DH machine spirit gives you a shot of any weapon at BS 4, nothing wrong with it.
The only big trade offs are the improved saves vs extra attack/extra stun with TH/SS, and the rending 4 crusader vs 3 regular shots and always-active hurricanes.
What's in the SM codex, has nothing to do with DH officially. But you can always try to strike a deal with an opponent if you want to
Tyranids Win / Draw /Lost 
Daemon Hunters Win / Draw / Lost 
GW has made it abundantly clear that, officially, nobody gets to take advantage of Codex: Space Marines rules (i.e., wargear, weaponry) except forces taken directly from Codex: Space Marines. That means that Black Templars, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and us Daemonhunters are left out in the cold. Officially.
Obviously, anything you can house rule with an opponent is fair game.
For myself, I've now come to the conclusion that there are so very many differences that, going forward, I've decided to play RAW, for better (e.g., force weapons, smoke launchers), and worse (e.g., assault cannons, storm shields). I'm sick and tired of discussing and even arguing with both my friends and random pick-up opponents about these things.
For those that are interested, Marid on the B&C has been compiling a list of DH codex RAW quirks, a handy reference sheet for players and opponents alike.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
We can benenfit but by taking SMs as allies and/or vice versa
What Number6 said. Unfortunately, the Black Templars, etc who have far more reason to take something out of the SM codex directly than DH can't, so I don't really see why we should be able to. Further to that point, the points costs are balanced. Low points for a 3+ Inv save? Thats nuts.
The only exception I ever play to this is the Assault Cannon - sounds cheap, I know, since I'm effectively picking and choosing but I just can't justify leaving this one as RAW.
I'm with Number6. Just go with the DH Codex. I no longer think of my Land Raider Crusader as a SM LRC. I think of it as Grey Knight LRC, just like it says in its entry. The same goes for dreadnoughts, which have always had a different WS than SM dreadnoughts. Our equipment is different, for better or worse. Even on a small planet like our humble Earth, equipment varies between and within the various armed forces.
Personally, I love being able to move my GK LRC 12" and still fire just about everything. The fact that the AC is only Heavy 3 not-rending helps keep it fair. Remember that we also get extra armor and the pintle Multi-melta for free, so the GK LRC is cheaper than it once was in comparison to a SM LRC.
Our codex does need an update and maybe when GW makes one they will adjust our equipment to make it like SM stuff. When the next SM codex comes out it will all begin again.