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  1. #1
    Member Mr_Maugers_Destroyer's Avatar
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    whirlwind tactics

    well seeing as there isn't a page on them i thought I'd put some tactics out there for all you wanna be whirlwind players

    Why?
    well where do you begin, lets look at the points cost 85 pts, the cheapest tank out there that can do some real damage to enemy troops. In one shot it is possible for you to take out a whole squad of enemy troops, you do this by targeting the enemy close to the board, or packed together. If you score a hit you should normally kill the majority of the squad causing them to panic and possibly run off the board, thus losing the unit for the rest of the game. plus they look really cool. I do honestly believe every SM army should have one as often it can be left in the corner plugging away at enemy troops and if its in or behind cover the enemy can only destroy it by cc it causing them to move valuable resources away from the objective to destroy something that is just 85 pts in value, which is why im surprised that in the last 10 SM battle reports(apocalypse excluded) they have only been used once (vs orcs)

    Where?
    where is the best place to deploy them? well quite simply in cover it is the only space marine tank capable of indirect fire and being able to shoot your enemies troops to pieces, there is nearly no situation in which the enemy army will not have a squad of 6 or higher in the army and this is perfect at destorying those, it is also capabe of damaging enemy amour. alternatlivly if deplying in an open battle ground you will probberly see these go down very quickly so my best advice is to deply them in the corners as far from the enemy as possible (48" range means most armies can't reach it (the mre advanced however will be able to so you just have to pray they focus on other units, though often they will do that)

    When?
    well when not is probberly a better question, if you are facing an army in cities of death the mines are able to dictate where your enemy goes allowing you to cause a bottleneck, but more on that later, against most armie these will be very effective, however against a horde army (tyranids, chaos deamons, IG orcs) three of these beauties will most probberly account for about half the casulties the enemey suffer and for only 255pts its inexcusable to leave these out.

    What/who?
    there are three types of armaments available for these: incendiary (ignores cover saves(DA exclusive), vengeance(strength 8 large blast marker) and castellean ( deploys mines that remain there for the rest of the game and any model walking thought them takes a roll dependent hit) first up incendiary, one of these can be invaluable in a high cover game and i would suggest one of these in a cities of death and on castellean, also take them in high cover save matches and/or against low strength troops. Vengeance best taken against strong armies or if being employed as an anti-tank unit a big no-no for cities of death. Finally Castilian again pretty much used the same as incendiary though this leaves mines permanently so you can cause you opponent to have to miss streets off and you can then create a bottleneck affect in cities of death, though can only be used in cities of death with incendiary if you use a mixed force

    conclusion: So basically what you have here is a low cost tank that can dish out heavy damage to enemy infantry (and occasionally tanks) whilst hiding in cover, due to its cheapness its often ignored by the enemy and can plug away for 5-6 turns devastating the enemy, of course it does have low points cost and can scatter but even so I still hardly ever leave home without one or two!

    current armies Eldar 3k, SM 9k
    and in the works, Eldar 2k, necron 2k, GK 2k

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  3. #2
    Monkey of Mystery The Paint Monkey's Avatar
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    743 (x8)

    Err... I'm not sure they can still drop mine fields. You haven't mentioned that they compete with dirt cheap predators, either.

    Good ideas, though.
    No more NG spearmen, thanks! Now I need some pump-wagons!

  4. #3
    Tactical Avante-Gard <E!_Mance>'s Avatar
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    108 (x6)

    incendiary (ignores cover saves(DA exclusive), vengeance(strength 8 large blast marker) and castellean ( deploys mines that remain there for the rest of the game and any walking thought them takes a roll dependent hit)
    This is wrong. Vengeance were only ever S5. Also, the Incendiary isn't only DA, BA have it too, as do the standard SM now (I think, Codex not on me now).
    normally kill the majority of the squad
    Again, not neccesarily true. Against Gaunts or Guard etc., yes. If the Gaunts are minimised or close to. Try using S5 AP4 against Space Marines, or anything else with a 3+ armour save, no. If you want something that will do the damage enough to kill most of a squad of anything, look to the Demolisher cannon.
    which is why im surprised that in the last 10 SM battle reports(apocalypse excluded) they have only been used once (vs orcs)
    You have a point, but do you notice that the standard and near exlusive Tactical squad type used by all of those armies was Flamer, Chainsword & Bolt pistol, & Missile launcher? This may be the kind of unproductive army-list making typical of a not-the-army-with-the-new-codex force. Though the irony of this is that the VS Orks report included one, and the defenders against the newly redone army is always set to lose.
    I know we can;t fault the artillery for the GW god's decisions, but the Whirlwind can't be all THAT tactically sound if the only time you've seen them use it was when they were intended to fail.
    three of these beauties will most probberly account for about half the casulties the enemey suffer and for only 255pts its inexcusable to leave these out.
    3?
    Seriously?
    THREE?
    You may swear by them but I say the more effective solution to wiping out hordes is to use a Dev squad with 4 Heavy Bolters or 2 and 2 Plasma cannons.
    Sure it's more expensive, but it's more durable, more capable of vehicular destruction, better wounding, more AP'ing, and more potential targets hit than the single inaccurate pie plate per turn. Besides, by filling your FoC with 3 of them, how will you cope when the enemy hits you with anything that can kill your Transports?
    No offense, but I'm saying that a tank of ultimate pestering will die when most races have many weapons that can annihilate your trump card with ease.
    You have a good point that I myself used, but even I used only 2 so I could have the good old LRC in the same list to provide some beef. I encourage you to not only say how good something is, but ponder on what you lose out on.
    So basically what you have here is a low cost tank that can dish out heavy damage to enemy infantry (and occasionally tanks) whilst hiding in cover, due to its cheapness its often ignored by the enemy and can plug away for 5-6 turns devastating the enemy, of course it does have low points cost and can scatter but even so I still hardly ever leave home without one or two!
    Low cost, yes. Heavy damage to infantry, yes, possibly. To vehicles, probably not. Cheapness is not ignorable, effect is. If your vehicle spews out a big blast template each turn the enemy will try to end this, not much, but one or two units will fire at it and that's all they will need most of the time.

    You have made a good argument, but I see some things you didn't notice or mention.
    And as for the deployment, tell me honestly if you don't deploy some other units to stay at home and guard the Whirlwinds.
    If you do, then you are wasting them.
    Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
    48W/7D/11L

  5. #4
    Lord of Shadows CleanRabbit's Avatar
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    77 (x2)

    I've been fielding a whirlwind (just one!) in at least half of my battles to date. It may be cheap, but its weak, scatters anywhere, fails to kill SM/CSM in an epic way, and to date has only earned its points back three times (out of over 30games played with it!)

    To be honest, the storm bolter upgrade has killed about as many as the main weapon has - right before it gets melta-bombed....

    Yes, its cheap, but in a tough game, take something more durable, like a pred or devvie squad...

    CR


  6. #5
    Member Mr_Maugers_Destroyer's Avatar
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    yer i havnt got the new codex so i made this about 6 mnths ago but hadnt had time to update it, i see your point with the devastator squads but te points you save can be used to upgrade tactical squads with these, also my idea was to put this up then use to feedback to make it correct. I guess that im just lucky with the fact that mine hardly scatter, I guess its just whether or not somone has had good luck with them or not as to how effective they are
    current armies Eldar 3k, SM 9k
    and in the works, Eldar 2k, necron 2k, GK 2k

  7. #6
    Lord of Shadows CleanRabbit's Avatar
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    77 (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Maugers_Destroyer View Post
    i see your point with the devastator squads but te points you save can be used to upgrade tactical squads with these
    Considering the most common upgrades are free for tactical squads in the new codex, i cannot see how that would help either.

    I strongly recomend you go and grab the new codex mate - you'll find a lot of things have changed =)


  8. #7
    Member Mr_Maugers_Destroyer's Avatar
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    yer i actually knew tht bit as well, brain just went blank, I guess tht its true what you say, i nrmally leave one of my 2 in favour of a devastator squad and predator, just because my main oppenant rolls with 3 yes 3 hammerheads, though tht one whirlwind has accounted for about 120 men in 4 2000pt battles so far
    current armies Eldar 3k, SM 9k
    and in the works, Eldar 2k, necron 2k, GK 2k

  9. #8
    Senior Member Djones9916's Avatar
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    80 (x2)

    I've played one game with it. I gave it Extra Armor to soak some points up, and I gotta say it certainly payed off. First turn it completely wiped out a Gaurdian Squad that was hiding in a building. Then it wiped out a deep striking squad of Swooping Hawks, and finally it killed 2 Shining Spears.

    Is it a perfect choice against MEQ's? No, but there are plenty of armies that it is still a great tool for. Tau, IG, Nids, Orcs, Eldar will all be afraid of that thing, and if you get it into good cover, then they'll either have to ignore it, or devote a lot of fire power to drop that one cheap tank that isn't going at the rest of your army.

    I'm pretty sold on it, and I'll be using it a lot more then I did in 4th edition.
    Nights Justice Space Marines
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  10. #9
    Acting XO of Tanith 1st MadLarkin's Avatar
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    192 (x4)

    I prefer the auto/hb predator for the same points you get higher strength shots that hit more often and with a higher armor value. Especially in 5th edition where its hard to hide something completely out of line of sight and when it is for once then you scatter like no other.

    Don't get me wrong, I really wanna try it out in a campaign I'm playing, but I won't employ it until I capture the center (fortified palace with AV15 castle walls ) and there it will hide behind the walls and blow things up, that and a bunch of thunderfire cannons (apoc so no charts)
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  11. #10
    Tactical Avante-Gard <E!_Mance>'s Avatar
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    108 (x6)

    But the major question I posed wasn't answered...
    DO you make a couple of units designed entirely to your Whirlwinds' defence?

    And points going into Devastator squads CAN go into Tactical squads, but fielding 10 and splitting it into covering 2 firing lanes is a good move.
    Whirlwind - 85pts
    10 man Dev squad with 4 Missile launchers - 210pts
    Which one is more dangerous? The latter has enough markers to remove hordes effectively, and the tank hunting power the Whirlwind never will, not to mention the durability of the numbers.
    Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
    48W/7D/11L

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