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Kill this thread if someone has asked this already.
Has anyone come up with a viable way to field a good close combat IG force? I am sick and tired of that last SM or Eldar that made it across (After all their buddies are DEAD) the map only to knock out an entire squad.
"I'm up, they see me, I'm down. I'm up, they see me, I'm down."
I hear 30 or more conscripts plus an indy commissar do wonders for slowing melee advances and providing cover.
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Though very hard to model and collect, a Kanak Skull Takers doctrined-like army would be decent in close combat, or this is what we hope to believe. Doctrines are a must if you are dying to improve the melee capability of your soldiery. Hardened Fighters, Rough Riders, Ogryns and even Carapace Armour and Priests are usefull, but still by many players you will hear that Close Combat is not the place you want to be.
Concerning the Skull Takers mentioning above or a similar fluff to it, I would not count on it because we do not know if something like the Warrior Weapons doctrine will be kept in the new codex, or a similar squad upgrade for it. But concerning the current availability of doctrines, only by practice can you find a proper combo for it and if you love it, a fluff behind it.
I hope I helped, but more experienced people around can offer better advice.
In general, the best thing that IG bring to the melee is a whole lot of bodies. The fact of the matter is, we're not gonna outfight a lot of other races, but we do have the capacity to out last them.
Power fists aren't too bad, since most IG strike at lower initiative than other races, though every point spent on wargear is another point taken away from having more guns on the table. Power swords are less expensive, but don't hit so hard with a guardsman swinging it.
Rough Riders are really the only option that is reliable when used in correct context. Generally, you want these guys as a counter-charge unit to go after expensive HQ and elites with good armor saves i.e. terminators. Their usefulness tends to drop dramatically after using their lances though, so taking a few special weapons along might not be a bad idea.
I think the best way to get great CC punch in an IG force is to go to the Inquisition. Grey Knights are a match for just about anything in the 40k universe in CC, and their Storm Bolters allow them to bolster your gunline's shooting if it comes down to it.
Cadaver Junkie would also say that you could field a load of priests with Eviscerators, but I've never tried that, so I wouldn't be able to tell you about those.
Really though, when it comes down to it, it's very difficult to make a purely CC IG force. I personally would go with Grey Knight support if I felt the need to take some melee units, and rely on the weight of my guns to do most of the work.
I think you need to spend more time on your floor.
2500 Black Templars
Why are you thoeritically speaking? The answer is simple: No. Or: Wrong army. Don't struggle, it's simply not that and models with max S and T3 are NEVER going to be good combat opponents, now matter how numerous. Especially due to 5th ed. sweeping advance.
Actually I've been able to wipe out large chaos space marine squads when I charge with 2 line squads and a command squad w/gaunt attached. Gaunt gives you +2 attacks on the charge instead of +1
While it is not a competitive army in a tournament setting if you and your friend are going for fluff and not powergaming then you have a chance with this. Just make sure you bring lots of flamers.
Most Notable Achievements:
Killed a Revenant Titan in one shot.
Killed 900 pts worth of Blood Angels in 2 turns while only loosing 4 pts.
- His execute ability only works once, after that you use his Ld, which will probably be testing at a massive negative.
- In 5th edition, the first models in a squad that have to make the countercharge are the independanct characters, so if your conscripts are charged, the commissar will likey find himself in btb and probably killed as a seperate, targettable unit.
5th edition has really changed the effectiveness of the conscript tar pit. I generally wouldn't use them for that anymore. Doesn't mean conscripts are far from effective, however! Just not as much for that reason.
But I'd agree with regards to rough riders, ogryns and carapace armour - all of these things can be worth their points in the right situation.
There seem to be several basic methods of handling close combat for 40K that I've noticed people try and use.
There's the horde approach - swamp any enemy assaulting units with a mass of bodies, conscripts and normal IG, and hope that you will have enough basic attacks to make a difference. This seems to me a little risky in 5th edition, what with the way Ld tests are now made, but if it still works for some than that's awesome.
The next is the bait and sacrifice approach. If you know that you are about to be hit in hth by a dedicated assault unit, feed them something that you can stand to lose. Try and ensure that this is the only unit he will be easily able to assault. Then make sure they LOSE the combat. Cut down, or running away, it doesn't matter - you should be able to smash them in your following shooting phase. This is also where Iron Discipline comes in - use the sergeants low leadership to fail the first LD test, then use your Officer and his standard to bring them back into the battle.
Then there's the dedicated assault/cc units. Some people like to take ogryns, rough riders, hth equipped command squads and the like. They take a bit of skill and finesse to use properly (as each has inherent weaknesses, just like everything else in the IG list), but can be highly effective if used well. Most of the time, however, these units are used in more of a counter assault role than all out 'bring it to the enemy'. Although, a while back I did toy with the idea of a 30 rough rider army (and have the elven horses to go with it!).
Most armies tend to run some kind of a mix of the above.
As for a viable close combat IG force? I'm sure its possible, it just probably won't be as strong as other dedicated hth armies out there. On the other hand, a dedicated assault army is highly viable - this is how I run my army, and it possesses a ludicrous win ratio. A combination of massed guns and templates (many high powered) over the 12" range, a few hth based units (command squad, vets with powerfists, flamers and shotties, priests and soon - skitarii versions of arco flagellents), and a bit of strong long range support eg russes and techpriest gun servitors. It seems to work well for me!
"Pickles, the drummer, doodily doo. (Ding-dong, doodily, doodily, doo.)"
Also, you should google "garfield minus garfield". Awesome.
well call it crazy but my officers do a good job of getting me out of hth
HSO(powerfist, plasma pistol, carapace armor)
2x grenade launchers
they usually shoot the crap out of anything that is about to close combat my army, if it works, cool, if it doesn't then i wait for my opponent to charge whatever squad he was targeting(make sure the hq squad does not get in hth) after he attacks the other squad, my hq charges so i gain the charge attacks, plus the attacks that the remaining squad has
and this is my officer that does the really dirty work
JO(power weapon, bolt pistol, horifica imperialis)
2x guardsmen with flamers
2x guardsmen with ccw
but here is where he gets really good, because i use close order drill, the officer is initiative 5, but overall i never have a officer charge a squad without shooting, its basically suicide, for example i know that the officer above(more powerful squad than main hq in hth) can only deal with 6 meq max in hth with a guarenteed victory.
Hellhounds are good tanks
Satan - "**** you Kage! And **** you Jables! I'll get you Tenacious DDDDdddddddeeeeee!!!!!!"
i've decided that the only way to avoid CC is to kill everything before hand.
Thus I'm giving in an getting some hellhounds, some Rough Riders and maybe some ogryns.
Fifth Edition Saved 40k for Me. I love my ratlings and my cover saves!
the following has been a pretty successful tactic against ork armies and DE, for me at leas.
the general thing to do is to lose close combats using meat shield units hiding strong punch units behind them, so the following turn the enemy that isn't able to sweep into another unit with 5th ed can then be unloaded on.
example, you have a forest, you deploy two infantry squads in it on the side facing the enemy and then you setup up a command squad w/ 2-3 flamers right behind them (set-up in a way that the enemy can't charge the command squad). once the enemy reaches your infantry squads and scatters them in melee, the flamer squad moves forward and unloads template hell upon the bunched up enemy. presto, all-you-can-eat BBQ... should you want to eat it.
oh another good one is to hold hellhounds in reserve, so when they do come in, it's anywhere along your line where the enemy needs a good burning as above. (can work with demolishers as well or leman russes, though battle cannons have a long enough range that for them it's more just to roll onto the table as far away from the opponent's anti-tank as possible).