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Has this issue come up before? It did for me in a game last night. I gave my Ironclad Dreadnought a chainfist simply because I am not sure how I am going to model the seismic hammer. Anyway, my opponent said it makes it's initiative 1. I checked the rules for chainfist and it says it is treated exactly like a powerfist. The rules say a dreadnought close combat weapon (DCCW) attacks at the dread's initiative, but there is no rule that says a dreadnought gets to use it's initiative with a chainfist, that I could find.
This brings up the question, why do they list the Ironclad as having a 3rd attack for having 2 CCW? The special CCW (thunder hammer, power fist, lightning claws) say you have to have an identical pair to get the extra attack, but an Ironclad with a DCCW and the seismic hammer gets the additional attack.
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
In most situations the dreadnought won't die from close combat. The only thing that can really hurt him (powerfists) will strike at initiative 1. That means he will get to go regardless. The only thing that could normally kill him early would be melta bombs, but those need a 6 to stick on a walker, so it really isn't that much of a set back.
But it gets even better. Lets say you have an Ironclad dreadnought with a chainfist and DCCW. Well just attack using the DCCW. Yes the chainfist will go last, but so what? It is just like a guy with a powerfist can choose to attack at his initiative by not attacking with it.
I was playing against Deathwing, so I faced a ton of intiative 1 power fists. It would have been nice to go at initiative 4. There were no vehicles in his list. Nothing but terminators. The sad thing is my Ironclad only did a single wound in the whole game. My dice were against me. Needing 4's to hits with 3 attacks I never hit more than once, and always rolled ones to wound except ONCE! He went through 6 close-combat phases and only did one wound. <pathetic...>
I was just surprised to see my initiative was dropped. I guess I just did not think it over thoroughly...
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
Hahaha your dreadnought performed as badly as mine heavy flamer and MM killed no genestealers (despite the fact that the HF covered them ALL), and got locked in combat for 5 turns, having every one of his limbs torn off. He managed to boot one genestealer to death with a str. 6 attack.
Back on topic, if I was using the Chainfist, for the sake of fairness I'd say it'd go last. -_- But then the Ironclad has a DCCW, so it can more than fend for itself. :x
Iron Swords 3rd Company - We are the swords which reap the bodies of our foes.
Train of thought will be terminating at.. edible murder weapons!
so the the seismic hammer would still give the +1a for being an identical weapon (albeit with an attached bonus).
the rules section in question would be the last part of rules on DCCW.
"If a walker is armed with two or more close combat weapons, it gains one bonus attack for each additional weapon over the first. If one of its additional weapons is destroyed, one bonus attack is lost."
so it could be construed there that it doesn't matter what types of close combat weapons the dreadnought has, you'll always get the +1a for either weapon you choose to use (either the dccw at initiative or the chainfist striking last).
I would be very reluctant to say the chainfist goes last. True, a regular infantryman has a tough time handling a fist, but twenty tons of mechanical killing machine should be perfectly capable of swinging it around with ease! You're taking a rule written for infantry and trying to apply it to dreadnoughts, which are a different thing entirely.
Actually, prior to this, have any walkers been able to take weapons specifically classed as a chainfist or powerfist before? If not, GW probably neglected to clarify the situation - it should probably be treated as a DCCW that gets the extra penetration die just like the seismic hammer gets the damage bonus.
(all very much IMHO, of course - hopefully it gets FAQ'd soon)