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Again Iíve been perusing the forum and have found mixed reports on the effectiveness of the assassins in 5th ed. E.g. Iíve heard that the callidus was superb in 4th but now in 5th is 'underpowered' for want of a better word.
I ask this because i have a problem with opposition enemy fire teams (ork lootas to be exact) which take advantage of my vulnerable footslogging GKs and the odd dread.
Which assassin would deal with them best, or could you suggest another method for around 180 points (stand alone inq + psycannon and callidus)
P.s. Sorry to raise the issue of assassins again
Thanks to all those who reply.
I don't think they became much less effective than in 4th ed, with the exception of the Eversor on Vehicles, as glances are less effective.
I don't think in general they are that great a unit for the price anyway. I have used all but the Cullexus quite a bit and rate them like this.
Callidus: best overall, probably best for the points, but expensive. Neural Shredder is great and this is definatly the one to take against the Lootas. Take an IG armoured fist squad with "Improved Comms" and then you can re-roll a failed reserve roll.
Eversor: Second best overall, maybe best for the points. Good against Monstrous Creatures and small squads, bad against hords and big squads. You need to have a good infilatrating spot or he gets wasted.
Vindicare: Worst for the points and overall. I never have seemed to make him work for me. I don't care how many points he takes out, it about what points he saves you later, (embedded fist, Lascannon Marine, etc.) Six turns is just not good enough, and I seem to a propensity to roll 1s.
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
I also agree for what you want the callidus would be the most suited assassin.
The eversor really needs to be backed up by a squad or some DCA's.
The Vindicare isnt too bad, but 5th ed while it did make a little more attractive, simple fact is he might kill 5-7 model at most. He is useful for taking out those power klaw nobs however.
Well your looking for good fire support for your army.
I've played Lootas and once they have taken out a Inquisitor and retinue in the first turn... I learnt very quickly.
So I used all the LOS blocking terrain I could and block fire paths of my target.
Generally the best tool would be the Land Raider Crusader I had that couldn't be harmed, and the Grey Knights would run on either side blocking LOS to the Lootas but still be able to use their stormbolters.
So yeah assassins are good but they just lost a few tricks of the trade you could do manually making them less attractive.
I would also say the Callidus is best because of her polymorphine... I just don't like the reserves table she follows.
I wouldn't say the Vindicare is too bad I mean, in-game you can really cause a fuss.
Like, hmmm Who shall I kill this turn? It'll make your opponent try and shoot him, with his stealth suit he'll give a free turn from weathering of heavy fire.
I might write like a ork but i fight like a poet.
Some one tell me they have ever seen a nightbringer die from a Nemesis Force Weapon.
ok so i could still use the callidus to good effect. Just an idea but would a mini purge squad be any good? (i justicar, 2 gks with psycannons and 2 more gks - 200pts)?
P.s. crusader tip taken into account, however if i were to switch one of my godhammer versions for it would that be detromental? (says me trying not to sway the thread off course) i.e in list 1 godhammer and 1 crusader varient with a shed load of gks an inq with callidus along side a BC with routine.
I really hate the rule that lets the charged squad pile in their troops, makes CC assassins much less survivable. In 4th ed I loved charging specific "kill zones" so that no one got to attack back, and the assassin would consolidate into assault. Not to mention no rapid fire pistols, goodbye Vindicare shooting at two different special weapons, sometimes in two different squads. And goodbye range sniping with low range weapons...
It seems to me like the rules are getting dummed down so that those "tricks of the trade" can't be used against people who don't understand strategy.
Even with the new edition changes, the Callidus is still an excellent choice. Her ability to deepstrike without scatter, fire her flamer template weapon, charge into close combat, disconnect from combat after the enemy's shooting phase but before they get a second chance to attack her, then fire at them again gives her a unique tactical edge. Not to mention just knowing that you have a Callidus tucked away in reserves waiting to mess up your enemy's battle plan can give you a nice psychological edge. The defending unit's pile-in option makes her a bit more fragile then before, but if used carefully she's still about as cheesy a unit as we get.
The Eversor is another popular choice, but if you take him you have to back him up with something else. He's going to be a bullet magnet. Diggum's Hammer was spot on: if you can't find a good spot to infiltrate him then he'll get gunned down before he can do anything.
Vindicare has never come through for me in a game, which is a shame because I love the model. Picking off your choice of a special weapons model is attractive, but he'll never do as much damage, or be as useful, as the Callidus or Eversor.
Steer clear of the Cullexus. Leadership 7 for everyone in his radius includes you, and his psyker focus gives him limited utility in an "all comers" list.
Oh ya, I forgot to actually include about how certain assassins can be useful!
Well my favorite Assassin has always been the vindicare, and I have more than one for apoc games. I usually try to pop a dread or similar vehicle with the turbo round, on average you won't even get a glancing hit, but I often see those armoured killers go down to a sniper's bullet, the reasonable chance to make it's points back on turn one is very tempting for me. I also like to fire into close combat with him, most people who don't use them aren't aware they ignore ALL targeting restrictions "What, you can't shoot models in CC/your own models!" "oh yes I can."
Just a shout out to the culexus assassin. It doesn't matter that your own troops get dropped to leadership 7, they're fearless. And the only leadership roll you'd have to make is for the Aegis, and with this bad boy around, you don't have to worry about psykers.
ok, i'm sold on the Callidus but has anyone got an argument for fielding some DCAs? or does the callidus out weigh them with her deep strike with no scatter rule, (can't wait to use)
thanks to all who've participate, the callidus has now earned her place in the list and is VERY unlikely to loose it any time soon.
IMHO, DCAs do not make the 5th edition cut. All of the assassins have had their close combat capability nerfed by the change in game rules. The lack of kill zones means that no assassin can kill their way into survivability. And this is compounded by the assault counter-attack rule which forces many more enemy models into engagement than you would ever see in 4th edition. The combination virtually ensures that, unless you are targeting single models or very small units, assassins will die in the ensuing combat.
In 4th edition, taking multiple DCAs and running them together as if they were a single unit was highly effective. They could choose the right charge angle to minimize return attacks, pretty reliably clear out their kill zones, and even if still engaged, the opponent would have to divide attacks amongst all the assassins that piled in. It could be very deadly.
This tactic still has some merit in 5th edition, but as I pointed out, it's effectiveness has been seriously curtailed by the new assault rules, which means you definitely require multiple DCAs to make any kind of useful dent. I'm not even sure a single "unit" of 3 DCAs is good enough anymore. So taking a proper amount of DCAs to be useful is a very expensive proposition. And aggravating the situation is the Kill Point issue. Each DCA is easily killed, and therefore easily surrenders a KP in 1/3 of all games you play.
I say the DCAs no longer serve any useful purpose. They are now too flawed to consider. A single Officio Assassinorum Operative -- in the form of a Callidus or Eversor -- is all that is really worth considering anymore.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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