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After few experiences with my imperial guard army (mostly storm-troopers and Grenadier doctrine), I was thinking of using Ogryns as my close combat units for the game, since no guardsmen (except for Rough Riders with lances) are good in fighting close combat (even Hardened fighters doctrine isn't good enough).
While searching through some sample army lists, I've seen some imperial guard players fielding their army with Daemon hunters units, such as Grey knights, inquisitor lords, and several assassins.
I'm not quite sure if this is legal in GW point of view, but if it is, I might be interested fielding some of them with my guardsmen.
The units that turn me on are assassins (Vindicare assassin might be alright) for large points army and Grey knight terminators in larger points army.
If I'm able to field in some daemon hunter units in my imperial guard army, can anyone give me an advice(s) about it, especially unit choices and tactics.
Thanks for advices.
It is perfectly legal to bring in daemonhunter units into you Guard army. I think you can get 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 troop and 1 fast units. The rules and restrictions are in the DH codex. Some tournaments don't allow allies of this kind but most do as the codex itself allows it.
To get an assasin you neeed an =][= lord and retinue to be able to take one. Vindicares by the way are the biggest waste of points in the game however (in my view of course).
I would suggest 10 grey knights as a good troop choice. Arm them with their basic kit and a targeter for the justicar if you have piddly amounts of points at the end. Use them as mobile storm bolter firepower until the enemy approach your lines then charge. deploy them in cover and don't forget their shrouding and aegis rules. Deploying guard squads in line in front of them gives them a cover save and doesnt really upset the GK fire as it is only AP5.
The other unit is 4-6 terminators with a psycannon or an HQ brother captain and 4-5 retinue simmilarly armed. You can add a psy hood for defence against farseers and the like. These guys have less supporting firepower but are more dangerous in combat. The enemy knows this however and will try to shoot them to bits before he arrives so be sure to deploy them in cover or at a point where the enemy fire lanes are restricted.
If you use the grenadier doctrine and would like to use it for more than 3 units then get 2 IST squads who are virtually the same.
Remember allied grey knight troop choices don't count towards your own minimums but they do count as scoring units for you.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
I play 5 or 6 GK Termies in my 1850 IG list and let me tell you, they more than make up for any failings in the IG list. Take two squads of stormies as your troops choice (grenadier doc), and fill out the rest of your IG list with a Russ, a Demolisher, a Bassie, a HH, and maybe some heavy weapon squads and you're golden.
Can Imperial Guard use arco-flagellants as a ally?
I think so. You have to decide between getting DH and WH allies as you cannot select from both lists.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
Neither in the DH or WH Codex is it said that you can't use both with an IG or SM army. And I'm fairly sure there's some FAQ evidence to support the assumption that this therefore means you can use both.
The only time I've ever really seen it used is for a Stormtroop army, to get a 6th Stormtrooper troops squad. (3 Grenadiers, 2 DH, 1 WH).
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC
The assumption comes from the statement that you must have a inquisitor from the same Ordos (deamon hunter or witch hunter) as your assassain to qualify - people were using deamonhunter inquisitors to fill the prerequisite (inquisitor) for fielding a witch hunter assassain.
This does seem moot, as the assassains are identical in both codexes, but this FAQ statement supports the argument that you can have both witch hunters and demonhunters as allies, with the restrictions only applying to each allied force individually (Your FOC does still hold it's restrictions though e.g. 3 Fast attack max)
You can get 0-1 HQ, 0-1 Elite, 0-2 troop and 0-1 fast attack.
From each. (The FAQ clarification came about as people were shoving a elite inquisitor in from one Dex, then a elite assassain in from the other.)
I heartily reccomend allies. I have a staple Grey Knight Brother Captain with psychic hood in my all comers army list, as he's 81 points of LD10 psychic hooded terminator armoured close combat hilarity (For uber competitive tournaments give him sanctuary, and camp on a objective with a 5 man remnant squad (troop). They just can't take it, move in, or shoot in. You can never be anhiallated vs demons either. It is mean though. (and you may fail a psychic test - that's a 1 in 12 chance per turn)
you can take stormtroopers without grenadiers doctrine.(Sweet.) you can put them in rhino's. (Better) - be warned there's subtle differences in their equipment (esp. the sgnt)
Some people use it to play a grey knights / SOB force with 3 IG heavy support choices.
Having IG as the main body list allows you access to Heavy support and doctrines in exchange for your 1hq and 2 troop prerequisites (and some restrictions on your allies)
There, i think that did it.
Oh, one last thing, It's of course a matter of opinion, but i like the vindicate (he's second to the callidus though)
He will never total his points in kills, but he can seriously make up for it in supporting your army. Don't bother with shooting characters, but can shoot the power fist out of that marine squad, or the lascannon out of that tactical squad. You can even shoot into combat! (yep, see faq)
and most importantly, he looks really cool and gives me a chance to field my multitude of converted inquisitors, who are also awsome. They'll rarely make their points back either, but it's good for a laugh.
(My 350 point terminator armoured twin master crafted lighning claw etc etc inquisitor with retinue is now only reserved for non-serious games. I'd like to give him a pimped up land raider sometime)
(In 4th I always fielded a inquisitor with emperors tarot if i was being vaguely competitive. It made my gunline have +1 on the opposed D6 roll to see who went first - that sways the results by over 30% in my favor. Alas, poor tarot, I knew him well.)
Adeptus Mechanicus Marines: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1655065
I have a couple points
1. With the new consolidation rule making it so you can enter into melee, IG's need for a CC unit is lowered since now we can simply blow them up next turn
2. With the new Codex: Deamon (and of course Chaos SM) and its increasing popularity, having a single squad of Grey Knights might hurt more than help since deamons gain the "Sustained Assault" ability.
3. An Inquisitorial Assassin can only be taken after you also purchase an Inquisitor Lord (since you can only take 1 elite choice as an ally). And since you need 3 henchmen, you are looking at a minimum investment of 63 points (which would providing virtually nothing save 2 kill points) before you can purchase your assassin. Now you could beef up the Inquisitor Lord... but honestly even as a shooty Lord (don't get me start about "assault" lord...) it is still an underperforming unit. Your best bet is to spend 6 extra points and buy 3 mystics for the lord and use it to give a free shot to your Demolisher when a Drop Pod lands near your line.
As for the assassin, if you're looking for a CC counter attacker, Eversor is your best bet. Now I love my Eversor, but having to spend over 150 points to get him really saddens me, and He usually doesn't come out unless I am playing Radical DH
4. Even the dedicated CC units (eg GKs, Assassins) will not be able to stand up against other good CC units. Just watch what happens when a squad of tooled up Nob bikers hits GKT
Personally, I feel that IG should do what IG does best, unload vast amounts of firepower and eat the losses we take in CC. Now that they can't consolidate, we will pretty much loose a squad every turn in CC (the new morale negatives see to that) but also can shoot at them every turn.
If you really want a squad to counter attack, your best bet is the humble Rough Rider. for 66 points you can get a squad of 6 rough riders w/ lances and hide them behind your lines. They make a pretty inexpensive "one shot" counter attacker unit.
I agree with BoxANT appart from point number 2. Grey knights being present only make daemon packs and nurglings have the sustained assault rule. As daemon packs no longer exhist in either CSM or daemon codexes then it only effects nurglings. In the DH threads it is generally accepted that this is due to all daemons becoming fearless and no longer vulnerable to all the instability rules that grey knights used to inensify.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
I love it when people who actually know what they're talking about take the time to post the whole truth. This whole thread should be part of some grand 5th ed tactica compilation.