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OK so I was going to start an ork army but then I saw these guys at the shop and just literally fell in love with the model, so I'm all over Daemonhunters now
Well anyway I picked up an inquisitor blister along with a box of grey knights. I'm going to be playing against an army of Tau soon (consisting of 2 boxes of fire warriors, 1 box of kroot carnivore, and some random hq), and I'm just wondering what more should I add to my army so that I won't get wiped out by the third turn...
I was looking at the army list and I saw that many lists with lower points (500, 750, 1000 ) had a brother captain with a psycannon as the hq. However, I looked on the games workshop website and they did not have a brother captain model for sale other than Stern (which did not have a psycannon). So where do we get this model from?
Last edited by codedarms333; November 30th, 2008 at 14:51.
Buy a BC Stern model and then a Psycannon terminator blister and switch the arms to get the Psycannon on your GM/BC.
In small lists you will need PAGKs and Dreads. I like a naked =][= with a Psycannon to attach to a small PAGK with two Psycannons, a deadly troop and transport killer. I don't bother with Termies or Landraiders until 1500pts. Get a Callidus and an Eversor. These guys are really fun to use, but don't take them in Tourney lists, IMO.
Some people like ISTs, but my belief is that I would rather have 1 GK than 2.5 ISTs so I only take PAGKs as a troop choice, unless I ally with some Sisters.
One of the great things about Deamonhunters is the ability to mix and match with Witchhunters. The first squad I got from WH was Seraphim, and what a purchase it was!. They can add some real help in anti tank and are a blast to use.
Anyway, I am rambling......... Welcome to DH!
"A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril."
Sir Winston Churchil
One thing many people don't understand about daemon hunters is that it should primarily be used as a shooting army. Storm bolters on every GK sign me up, they should run around on a flank, as far as their range will let them to take advantage of shrouding. Psycannons are great for this too, take some PAGKs with two psycannons, a BC with the same, and you have a cheap purgation squad that most enemies would rather get shot than come against in close combat.
Personally I don't like the stern model, what I do is use the terminator models (namely the brother captain from the box set who points, or the terminator with psycannon) and give them extra bits, like banners and things to decorate the base. For bits like that Dark Angels sprues are great, get some veterans and have fun with all the awesome stuff you get. As for your Tau friend, you should get a GK dread just for some anti tank, I usually go for the TLLC or the Plasma Cannon (GK assault cannons suck, and in 5th edition blast weapons are pretty accurate) and the DCCW with incinerator is my favorite, but the ML is all right if you like to stand back.
Good luck brother, may you bring the enemies of the emporer to their knees.
I find it important to respond and let you know that DH is not a shooty army per say. It is more of a 'reactive' army. We do both shooting and melee averagely.
See, it is more of a 'who am i facing and what are they fielding' that will determine how you play your force.
Against tau, it is a tricky subject. Generally I try to stay away from melee of their kroot. our storm bolters take them out pretty fast. And their other tau are terrible in hand to hand, I would say shoot and assault them the moment you get a chance. However, do the mobility of some tau lists, it can be difficult to foot chase them. As long as your opponent is not being a prick and doesn't have any tanks, you should be fine on the whole foot chase scenario.
Though, if he is intelligent, he could line up his kroot on one side (much closer to your guys cause they have infiltrate) and the tau on the other side of his deployment zone. What this would do is pick what side you are going to go after first. If you go after the kroot, the tau will just re-organize and be in a better position to shoot you as you advance again. and if you go after the tau, the kroot will just fire at you as you go buy, and eventually assault you when you have taken even more fire.
I am usually not TOO worried about kroot, as 20 storm bolter shots usually hurts them a lot. The problem is though, that they are cheap and with the amount of numbers they are usually bought in, and the infiltrate, slows down our advance enough (at least to me it does most of the time) that you might not get to the enemy with enough troops to dent. Though I have witnessed on more then one occasion, a squad of 10 GK eventually making it to a ripe squad of Tau fire warriors once the GK were shot down to 5 and still demolished the tau fire warriors easily.... however, the next round they are out of close combat and get shot again.... It can be a tricky situation.
Stay away from teleporting your grey knights. you need as many of them as possible, and can't afford to loose any of them. Also you need as many on the board at the beginning, because as it is, grey knights dont get many models, giving the enemy even less to shoot at during the beginning just makes it easier for him. Not to mention that troops choices are way too important now in 5th edition.... Take as many troop choices as you can get.
As for ISTs... I have used them plenty... I have 2 squads. A plasma squad (8 with 2 plasma guns in a rhino) and a melta squad (6 with 2 melta in a rhino)... All I can say is that they are one trick ponies mostly... and depending on your opponent, they may get killed first or last.... Some games, the melta guys pop out, destroy a tank instantly, then the next turn they get completely annihilated. Only to be killed first thing next time i play that opponent... Plasma squads usually go, find a nice tough as nails squad, shoot the heck out of them, and hope to jesus that they dont catch them intime to pop back into the rhino and get the heck outa there... which is usually not the case, as you have to be within double tap range of the ISTs to fully utilize their drive by capacities... which is also in move+charge range of virtually every unit *sigh*... But it is still fun, and really unexpected... I usually try to use them as fire magnets, that way my grey knights can get farther unharmed. Doesn't always work. But both rhino's also give the grey knights some cover, so that is a plus.
Anyways, as I was saying, lol, Grey knights are a reactive force. They excel at neither shooting or close combat, and they fail at neither shooting or close combat. They are jack of all trades and expect them to play them that way...
What I have come to do, is memorize most of the units in the entire game... And I have a designated 'shoot? or assault?' answer in my head for each.... Being that you are just getting into the game, you wont be able to do that anytime fast. For now, just learn your armies strength and weaknesses and get some games under your belt.
Grey Knights is not an easy army. I play them for fun and to be challenged, as when i played 'nids I lost 1 time out of about 40ish games... it got boring fast..... and whenever I play my friends orks, I very rarely loose... Same goes with SM, I win a lot with them... But DH, it is much more challenging and a lot more fun. There is not really a level of unexpectedness with DH, which I don't like all that much, as unexpected things can really make a game become fun. However, do to the fact that they are such jack of all trades, and need to be played as such, it can make games fun because you are always trying to do something new tactfully. You win some... you loose some (or a lot if you are me. lol), but you learn a whole heap of a lot for the next battle. I have finally gotten to the point with this army where I am winning JUST a bit more then I am loosing... Sure it is a tad more fun to win then loose, but it is pretty much still just as fun for me, cause after a game I always end up laughing and having a great time and possibly getting a beer with my friends and joking and laughing about the game.
In the end, though, you might not win much with DH at the beginning, or middle of your playing with them, Just stick with it, and if you are playing with fun people, they wont care, and will have fun playing with you no matter how static your army is.
If you play 40k as much as I used to play (which was like 2 games a day for 2 straight years, God i miss those days..), then you will want to change your list up constantly. I suggest proxying models before you buy them. Reason is that you can save money plenty fold. pewter are going up in price (so i have heard). Sorry to inform you of this, but the guys you bought, are made of metal, and so are 90% of the other models you can get in this game for the DH. So proxying makes things still interesting and allows you to change things up, and get a feel for different variations of the army..
Anyways, you caught me on a day where I am sick from work with the flu and bored out of my skull... Usually I am too busy to sit here and type all of this out nowadays. lol. What diggums hammer said is true though, for an all grey knights list, get PAGK + dreads. I kit the dreads out to either kill tanks or troops, depending on the list i face, most of the time, I kit them out with anti-troops stuff, as my friends dont use a whole heck of a lot of tanks... though the people at the stores like a lot of tanks nowa-days, and well, heavy tank lists are hard for us grey knight players.
So anyways, hope this helps!
wow... thanks for all the replies. I believe I know what to do now
I don't think stay away from DS is needed either, there are plenty of ways of DS bad and there are good ways of DS good. You just need to learn how to use the special rules well.
As for IST's i'd like to suggest to you goblin a tactic I yet to use for them (because it just came to mind)
9 ISTS w/ 2 Plasma guns in a chimera w/Heavy Flamer/Heavy Flamer
Now apply the same use you did before,
[/qoute]Plasma squads usually go, find a nice tough as nails squad, shoot the heck out of them, and hope to jesus that they dont catch them intime to pop back into the rhino and get the heck outa there... [quote]
Instead use the two fire points and stay inside the Chimera and fire the 2 plasma. any CC monsters will have trouble hitting since you moved 12" next turn you will have atleast another Plasma Double tap, and if you're lucky a 2 heavy flamer shot, thats if the hard as nails squad didn't go home crying.
I would suggest to you codearms, take a Land Raider instead of dreadnoughts.
They provide protection, anti-tank and a rock solid objective grabber.
I might write like a ork but i fight like a poet.
Some one tell me they have ever seen a nightbringer die from a Nemesis Force Weapon.
The prick comment was a little bit of a joke/kinda serious. Generally I play all comer lists, and never really tailor my list to fight particular opponents. So i always call my buddies pricks when they do it to me, they know that I'm only half serious.
As for deepstriking, I have had plenty and plenty and plenty of experience of DS... and although I am not the best player with regards to this game, I am sure plenty will agree with me, that in 5th edition, with DH, just to stay away from DS with your PAGK. As for terminators, I rarely find it a good tactic to deepstrike them because i rarely use them, or I kit them with 2 psycannons. Either way, you need troops troops troops... and troops cant DS, so even if you wanted to, you cant really afford less troop choices. Don't get me wrong, I do like deepstriking, and have had amazing fun with it in the past. Just in 5th ed right now, you cant put any PAGK into FAST attack until all 6 troops are full. Or at least 4 are full...
Yah, I have thought about shooting from the vehicles from top hatch. I don't know how to explain it, but I like to open my jacket and expose myself so that all can see my man hood... lol jk... honestly, usually i just keep them out there to soak up enemys fire/assault and keep using the tank to block LOS and or block isle ways.
landraiders are cool, tough as nails, and very survivable. If I could afford them, I would instead of using my already bought and converted dreadnoughts. However they are also almost twice as expensive. The debate on these forums has raged on for years now, two dreadnoughts or a land raider... Honestly, both are viable, both have benefits and draw backs... especially now with 5th ed, the land raider got more draw backs, but a few more benefits, and the dreadnought stayed the same, if not, a bit more tougher... Either way, this is purely choice about which option you like better. If you are not running a land raider heavy list, I would say get a few dreadnoughts.
also, vehicles cannot grab objects. though, if you meant that the land raider can transport grey knights, that is correct, and then they can grab objects... but anyways... I am going to go eat something.
hope this helps
They cant grab but they can contest. Ram the LR into an objective and watch the enemy try and take it out whilst you maul the rest of his army. Reminds me of points denial tactics but its now objective denial tactics. Also to note is that a pure GK army has very few kill points. My 1500pt list has 6 so if you played guard you'd only have to take out 2 min platoon squads to win. Easy.
Last edited by Pheonix Lord; December 2nd, 2008 at 00:28.
I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand
Success is the ability to go from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm.
Having just played a couple of games with DH for the first time, I found them very interesting. I had to relearn the art of tactics and strategy as I have been used to using Tau in various guises - Airborne, Mech, Static (less so), Mobile Infantry, Armoured Company and Ground Attack with Air Support.
What has been said about the GKs having problems with Tau if these are played as a Mechanised force is very true: GKs have problems due to the strength of their shooting weapons if they are constantly faced with the front armour of a Hammerhead or Devilfish. Although a Deep Strike is a potentially dangerous ploy, it can certainly help to get in behind the big nasties like the Hammerheads. If the Tau player does decide to tool up his army to play against MEq, you can be sure he'll have Ion Cannons on these vehicles and leave the Railgun stuff to the Broadside unit.
Anyway, the OP seems pretty sure he will be facing Foot Troops and an HQ. Ok, first things first....what sort of list could be made out of 24 FWs, 16 Kroot and a lone HQ?
Well, the Kroot can't be split up, as there are insufficient models to make up two minimum units, so you know you'll be facing a big CC squad. However, the Fire Warriors could be split in a number of ways. I would make them into 3 units of 8 models, each unit with a Shas'ui Team Leader with a Bonding Knife, Markerlight and a Hard-wired Target Lock. This will give me three fairly solid firebases which are not going to be able to run away too easily due to the BK. The Markerlights can be used by the other teams and by the HQ guy to boost their hit rate.
Remember that the Tau Pulse Rifle will outdistance your stormbolters by 6" if the Fire Warriors do not move. Also, performing a rolling fall back manoeuvre will allow him to retain at least one Markerlight able to shoot with the rest of that unit hitting on max range. The plan behind this manoeuvre is to draw the enemy onto the guns while forming a castle/refused flank firebase in a corner.
The HQ model I would use is a Shas'O with plasma rifle, missile pod, hard-wired multitracker and Stimulant Injector. The model also comes with two Gun Drones but I would tend not to give these to the Commander as they will lower his Toughness at first due to them being in the majority. Basically you have a Commander who is hitting on 2s from 24"+ and who also has the Tau equivalent of Feel No Pain. He will be a pain to get rid of, and with that plasma rifle killing any PAGKs it hits he is going to cause you some grief.
Kroot will be put into hard cover and possibly Go to Ground for the initial turn or two. If there's any woods/jungle on the table, that means they have a 2+ cover save against your shooting. Don't be fooled by them appearing to be rather pathetic - they aren't. With a 16-man unit putting out 48 attacks on the charge at the same strength as Marines is not funny. Try to assault them in cover and unless you're packing frags they are going to go first and cause some real pain. Their guns are effectively boltguns with a worse AP.
What I'm saying in a long-winded way is: don't underestimate the Tau. True, the Fire Warriors are not exactly Kung Fu 10th Dan guys, but if your Tau opponent knows what he's doing with them he will make large holes in your army very quickly with the sheer firepower available to him. Even the Kroot are pretty lethal with their slug thrower.
"Tau Commandment #226: Participants who use Velocity Trackers in the Tau Clay Pigeon Tournament will be disqualified"