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So having just gotten the new codex...finally, I am having some trouble figuring out how to adjust to the new play style. I don't really know what tactic is going to work well for me in this codex yet. Does anybody have any suggestions or have any good tactics that has shown some success?
Last edited by Master Lucius; December 1st, 2008 at 08:24.
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Master Lucius, Chapter Master of the Noble Templars
Well, in 5th Edition it generally is a good idea to have Tactical Squads in Rhinos to score mission objectives. Drop podding a Dreadnought behind the enemy's lines is also a general tactic that works well.
Other than that, look into the various individual chapters to formulate a strategy based on their strengths.
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I haven't been able to pick up a copy yet but I'm curious, what strategies does the new edition favor?
In the past close combat heavy armies typically did the best and if used correctly could easily overwhelm shooty armies, despite numbers and such. From what I've read and heard deep striking and drop podding are two heavily used strategies that are favored in the 5th edition, so it seems like close combat is, again, the favorite tactic; though I could very well be wrong.
5th actually pretty much favours shooting more then assault now, since different models in a squad can take wounds, meaning there is a possibility to kill the seargent, or special weapons before you kill any of the other models in the squad. You don't choose who takes those wounds, but if you can fire enough to evenly spread those wounds arround to a squad, theres a better chance. As for assault, while getting closer to the enemy is easy with the run rule, it gets hard if you win the assault on your turn, because you cannot move into another assault, leaving your guys on the enemy line, just sitting there. So from what i've noticed, a really good shooty army will probably do alittle bit better then a army geared for CC.
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I do not see how it favours shooting generally 5th edition. Everything gets to assualt faster the penalties for losing combat are tougher.
Although yes the ocnsoldating into other troops is a negative what others are there. Shooting sufferes from a lo of cover saves now and is easily overwhelmed in close combat especially with low initiative. Vehicles have become slightly tougher and 1st turn you can get into assault range with drop pods just have to wait another turn to do the deed.)
Marines in 5th with new codex:
- 5th edition is more close combat oriented than previous, transport vehicles survive longer, troops can run, cover saves everywere, cheap durable transports, so spacemarines=shooty was better than close combat, now shooting is slightly better only
- how to play them now? In my opinion universality is the key.
Mobility for troops, no static gunlines, so transports/drop pods, go for rapidfire range, take objectives
- tactical squads are your bread and butter
- elites are your hammer,no mistake with sternguard or dread in drop pod
- heavy support - take predator
- HQ - capitain and honor guard
This is basic army you start, than you can change your elites to more close combat, or specialize heavy support against troops or armor, and add some fast attack for tactical advantages.
1) Your primary goal is take no-armor saves teplate weapons out at all costs. (leman russ etc.)
2) Use your mobility - if enemy shooty close combat him, if close combat shoot him, if has psecialised units counter him, you have answer nearly against everything
Last edited by czechImenhotep; December 1st, 2008 at 19:36.
As czechImenhotep said, versatility is the key to winning with the new Space Marines.
Granted, with the new rules, everything generally got more dangerous whilst simultaneously being harder to kill. An interesting turn of events that coupled with the new codex favors fast moving, aggressive, shock attack style armies. Essentially what Space Marines are known for in fluff.
Thus, keep that in mind when selecting your forces. You'll quickly find Tactical squads to be the core of your force thanks to their flexibility and their status as premier objective takers. You should mount them in a Rhino, as a Razorback is barely worth it considering the free heavy weapon and special weapon the squad can bring to bear.
Start with these two mounted squads and go from there. Drop podding is also an option, but you'll want to use drop pods en masse, as the new drop pod assault rules really benefits from having four or more pods able to "Drop"
Depending on what you feel you need more, whether it be shooting or close combat, add on. An assault squad or a drop podded dreadnought are good next choices for more combat punch while the amazingly cheap Predator is a nice option for Heavy Support slots. When in doubt, a tactical squad is always good, as their flexibility in terms of shooting and assault can be very helpful. The older brother of Tacticals, the Sternguard, are also a plausibility if undecisive, as they can handle multiple threats with just their standard bolter. Try to avoid more expensive close combat units such as terminators, honor guard, vanguard etc. They rerquire some experience to use as they are not the point and kill units as they were in previous codexes. You will need to plan approrpiately to get the most out of these units. As time goes on and you familiarize yourself with marines, try them out.
Remember though, the shooting line has lost alot of its power with the new rules. Older shooting line space marines relied on the quality of fire they could put out relative to the enemy. In 5th edition coupled with the increase in high powered long range weapons for Space Marines this has become difficult, albeit plausible. Higher prices mean less meat for your squads and coupled with the new wound allocation rules, it's become all too easy to lose those high powered weapons. It's just so much more difficult to spam Las and Plas when it's more economical to spam Flamer/Missile/Multi with combat squads. IG can still do the gunline and roll with the hits, as they just vomit a torrent of fire that doesn't care if you've got saves or not.
Generally you'll want to use the mobility your drop pods and rhinos grant you to target a single point on your enemy's battle line and overwhelm it until it collapses. From that point on roll up on the enemy's battle line, as they can only bring some of their force to bear where as you can bring it all.
Against a smaller, elitist army such as other marines, Grey Knights or Chaos, you'll want to focus on objective management and capturing. Since both of your forces are so small, there's difficulty in establishing a battle line, which leaves both of you free to maneuver. Take advantage of your foe's weakness at this point; if he slogs fire down range, moving out of harms way with rhinos when he gets close enough, if he stands and shoots rush him with rhinos, block line of sight with your coffins. If he deep strikes heavily concentrate your forces and eliminate him piece by piece.
Against more mobile armies (Tau or Eldar), accept this fact and hunker down. Take the objective by force and hold it; you're hardier than he is and it doesn't matter if he's dancing circles around you if you're sitting on the prize.
In addition, running a themed army is very plausible, unlike before. Thanks to the Chapter Tactics ability that special characters bestow, you can run rather powerful combinations of troops. Take for example my own preferred combo, the Vulkan/Master of the Forge/ Ironclad spam. It combines my two favorite things: Dreadnoughts and Flamers, and to great effect. Bike armies are also feasible with Khan, or simply a Captain on a bike. Shrike armies allow for high speed assaults, etc, etc. If you find a theme you enjoy, go for it. It's more likely than not very feasible.
Currently Space Marines have great difficulty in doing pure close combat, as their primary options are limited to high priced assault units that can die horribly quickly to that torrent of fire I just mentioned. It's just so much more advantageous to go predominantly shooting with the new Space Marines. Don't get me wrong, tacticals can still do combat with their trusty pistol, but it'd probably be better rapid firing that bolter. It still is very possible to do close combat with the new marines, but it's rather uneconomical and there are better armies for that (Black Templar in particular)
You'll find a myriad of things to worry about as a Marine player, but I go as follows:
1. Long range templates of death: Basilisks, Leman Russes, Plasma Cannons, all these and more are incredibly detrimental to your long term health, even if you have cover saves. These should be high on your priority list.
2. High Powered Close Combat Units: Khorne Berserkers, Nobz, Terminators, etc. These lads will beat you in close combat, unless you outnumber them drastically. They tend to be large point sinks as well, so there's no harm not killing them. The closer they get the more you can worry about them. If they reach you you WILL die.
3. Troops: Probably the core of your own foe's force, they are the only objective takers your opponent has available. Kill him and ensure that your own troops survive and you can take objectives with relative impunity.
To summarize: Use your flexibility and fight your opponents weakness. If your opponent is as balanced as you, find an aspect of the battle you think you can control and hit it until your foe's flexibility snaps in half.
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