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does an obscured vehicle still get a cover save against a template weapon like a flamer? if it doesnt would a skimmer that moved flat out still get its 4+ cover save against a template weapon even though the rules say template weapons ignore cover saves and the save the skimmer gets is indeed described as a cover save.
if you take Vulkan his chapter tactics twin-link all flamers in your army, which allows you to re-roll wounds im assuming, against a vehicle would you re-roll the armor pen?
one last kind of unrelated thing i play an eldar opponent who uses a lot of grav tanks and lands them over my and his models (so that the models are completely under the tank but still 1 inch or more from the base. also can he disembark a unit from a wave serpent so that all of his models end up completely underneath the tank.
thanks again for any clarification you could give me on this
As you said, an obscured vehicle receives a cover save and template weapons such as the heavy flamer ignore cover saves. Thus, the vehicle would receive no cover save. As for your instance of the vehicle moving flat out, the idea with a flamer shooting at that vehicle is that there is no way to navigate around that wall of flame; there's no way high speed can prevent promethium from landing onto its hull. Same thing applies to turbo boosted bikes. The vehicle/bike receives a cover save because they're moving so fast that opposing fire is more likely to miss than hit. A flamer circumvents the problem of hitting.
Since Vulkan twin-links all flamers, meltas, etc. in the army, and thus twin-linked template weapons can re-roll failed rolls to wound or penetrate armor. So yes, if you fail the first time, you get another go at burning the armor open.
As for your Grav-tank problem, if I am reading it correctly: Your foe is having his grav-tanks fly over and LAND on top of your own and his own models? Your opponent is cheating then, as skimmers may fly over interviening terrain, friendly models and opposing models, but he may not land on top of any models, even if the skimmer's base is not in contact with any miniature's base. The base is ignored for all intents and purposes; it's just used as a prop to keep it "flying" What really matters is contact with the hull itself. Should a grav-tank fly into an opposing unit and occupy its space, it is essentially conducting a tank shock, which means that you must take the appropriate morale tests amongst other things.
In addition your opponent cannot place his models underneath the skimmer so as to be completely underneath it. A skimmer ignores terrain and intervening models only when moving, when stationary it is treated as any normal vehicle. That means that disembarking troops deploy within 2" of the access point and NOT under the vehicle.
To sum it up: No models may be under a skimmer EVER. The skimmer may pass over them but may not land on top of them nor can disembarking models deploy underneath it.
Please read the entire section on skimmers and don't quickly skim through it, as you may miss some very key words.
Do note though that a skimmer still obeys all line of sight rules and thanks to its floating base does not block line of sight when shooting on ground level, although the receiving end of the fire can claim a cover save for being behind the floating vehicle. Well, that's how I interpret it anyway and how we play it at the shop(s) I go to. I haven't read anything to contrary in the rulebook, but if someone could clarify that now, it would be excellent.
On a personal note, please use proper capitalization and punctuation. It'd be so much easier to understand you.
Well, that's my two kidneys.
Love, Sayomi Akimoto
Last edited by Sayomi Akimoto; December 3rd, 2008 at 05:46. Reason: Oops, forgot to add my kidneys
I don't think that the ability to reroll to wound grants the ability to reroll failed armour penetration results. TL flamers and lightening claws don't get a second chance to penetrate vehicles. Having digiweapons doesnt give your thunder hammer a benefit against land raiders. It would be like arguing that poisoned attacks also all penetrate tanks on a 4+.
Quorn! - Protein for the Protein God.
Arch Overfiend & Grand Despot
I currently play:
Doom Eagle Space Marines
Hive Fleet Omega Tyranids
Goff Ork Boyz(dead)
Tau of O'me
Inquisitorial Xeno Hunters
and my attempted foray into fantasy
'Dark Angel Green' Dark Elves in need of fluff
The skimmer problem came up in the last WD. One of the four gamers was claiming you can only CC a skimmer if you can touch the base (which is pretty hard to do on a falcon [insert cheesy white dwarf exclamation mark!]). just more support for the rulebook
Yup, I know, I was just saying it was in the article