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I used to play blood angels back in the bad old days of rhino rushing and recently I have thought of getting back into them. However looking at the new codex that they got in 2007 (I think) (the downloadable one), I am upset to find that they aren’t even that mean any more!
Most of the units do not even have furious charge or the black rage. Can someone please give me some insight into what happened to the blood angels and whether or not they are still a viable chapter choice and if so how to use them? Also with the release of the new space marine codex, are blood angels allowed to use models like the landraider redeemer?
Thanks for the help
well, this is a dilemma that all non-vanilla marine players are facing, use your own codex or give in and turn vanilla? with the new special characters the army builds from codex chapters can be replicated with the traits they offer. ( ravenwing can be almost completely replicated using the white scars special character.)
The new marine codex offers the similar advantages but at a cheaper points cost.
Alot of codex chapter players feel screwed over by GW.
Codex chapters can still win but require a bit more finess when playing, especially with the hordes of smurf and vanilla players out there.
IN regards to using new units/wargear stats from the Vanilla Codex, the official word from gamesworkshop is that you can, with your opponents consent. In tourneys though lists can only be based around you respective codex.
Add me! Let me know your forum name too! =)
You can't mix Codices unless your opponent is ok with it, which more or less means that SM get lots of units cheaper and better than the special chapters and more options on top of them.
BA aren't all that bad off. Assault Squads as Troops, DC, Lemartes, Overcharged Engines (Baal Pred = 4th edition vehicle moving and shooting), and Corbulo make them quite good.
I have a question that's similar to something the above poster mentioned, codex mixing.
I'm working on my own chapter that's a 2nd successor chapter to the Ultramarines and using the current (5th edition) rules in order to achieve what I want I would need to use the Blood Angel codex as my guide. Since there are a lot of things that aren't outlined in the Blood Angel codex that I need I bought the normal SM codex as a guide as well. But I noticed today that wargear options are different for the same unit in each codex, especially with the Captain. The differences are subtle, such as 1 stat point and what weapons/armor they can take. The way I see it the BA codex, which was written in mid 2007, was to give a glimpse into the future of Space Marines in the 5th edition. But when the 5th edition was released in late 2008, of course we can expect changes. But do changes in the Space Marine codex trump what is already written in the Blood Angels codex, or are they treated as two completely different documents to two completely different armies?
They are treated as two separate books with no mixing whatsoever. So red storm shields with blood drops are inferior to red storm shields with omega symbols for no adequately explained reason.
It's stupid and the chump who even considered the idea is even worse off.
If you couldn't tell, I play Dark Angels, at least BA still have a competitive build.
As =Me= said, the codex chapters of Blood Angels and Dark Angels have been made largely obsolete with the new Space Marine codices, while Black Templars are still rather competitive with the change in Preferred Enemy rules and Space Wolves working in a very awkward, but still rather competitive manner thanks to their dependency on the newer Space Marine codex rules.
Despite these set backs for the Angels codices, they can still be a competitive, if somewhat gimped army. You simply need to play to their strengths. Completely to their strengths. Doing so will help alleviate the problems of higher price, lackluster, equipment, etc. Then again, if you're not playing to that Chapter's strengths, why are you even playing them in the first place?
What is the strength of the Blood Angels chapter?
The new codex seems to suggest speed.
Assault squads a troops and over-charged Rhinos are the name of the game. Take advantage of this to quickly and rapidly strike parts of your foe's army without giving them the chance to react. The fact that even the Baal Predator can use this (Despite the gimping of rending) means that you can fluidly, if unreliably have your entire army moving at least twelve to eighteen inches a turn. In truth, I'd think that your basic tactical squad in conjunction with that same overcharged rhino can be quite the menace, as they can swiftly take objectives, as well as use the infamous Rhino-rocket ram. Yes, speed is what now defines Blood Angels, with assaulting still a major aspect, but now a secondary part of the overall Blood Angels strategem.
The Death Company has taken a back seat to the army, but since they are free (Relatively anyway. You're still paying for them in the higher cost for every other squad) make use of them as bullet magnets. If they get into combat, great! They're killing stuff for fun. If they die, that's less shots being fired into you own troops.
The Special characters and lack luster abilities of stock characters means that it's almost necessary to take them. I recommend Dante and/or Mephistion if you can afford it. The army's already somewhat gimped, so there's no reason not to play hard.
Thus, I'd say an effective Blood Angels army on paper would consist of three tactical squads mounted in rhinos with melta guns and power fists, a couple of assault squads (Flying or also in rhinos, your call. I'd go jump pack myself and use the rhinos as screens) three Baal Predators and Dante. Off my head that's a 2k list right there that have five Death Company members. It takes advantage of the fact that the army can go 12"-18" and should be able to handle both infantry and armor well enough.
The gist of it is that while yes, these non-vanilla codex armies are a gimped in the overarching nature of flexibility, they are inherintly built this way to encourage a style of play distinctively different from other chapters.
The Dark Angels can have a Bike/Terminator army that works beautifully thanks to the synergy of speed and effective teleportation.
The Black Templar can run the Space Marine rush or Crusader spam.
The Blood Angels can have an army that moves incredibly fast at 12-18" for the entire army.
The Space Wolves can run a tremendously effective combination of shooting and assault distinctively different from other Space Marine armies.
Each of these Chapter Codex armies plays in fluff to a certain style, and these codices are meant to encourage that style.
Sure, the new Vanilla codex army can run an all bike army, but can they also use terminators as hard troops and safely deep strike them within prime striking range by turn two?
The new Vanilla codex might get brand new toys, but can they do the Space Marine swarm or Crusader assault as well as the Templars?
Does the new codex give you the ability to run a mechanized army of fast vehicles or an all jump troop army?
And Space Wolves, well, I can't say anything other than you're still awesome.
Sure, the new codex allows you to emulate these styles to a certain degree, but you can't do it as well as the chapters famed for them.
Well, that's just my two kidneys.
Love, Sayomi Akimoto.
Hm... I'm considering dropping my original army theme that was centered around speed and close combat now. The reason why I needed to use the Blood Angel codex as a guide is because that's the only way I'm legally/properly allowed to field Assault Marines as troops. Ever since I decided I didn't like being an Ultramarine anymore the thought of fielding an Assault Marine army appealed to me so strongly and with the new rules this would be the only way to do it legally. The speed and combat ability would be hard to match, and if paired well with some range it becomes even more deadly.
If Blood Angels really are gimped (I don't know personally as I don't play them, I've only heard one person refer to them as gimped, the rest have said they're awesome) then if I'm playing a DIY chapter based on the BA codex without the BA heroes and Death Company then I suppose I'm really gimping myself.
Wonder if it's not too late to change to Space Wolves... That's a non-DIY chapter I've always wanted to play.
I play Blood Angels. I have played Ultramarines and I still do. They are my primary army, but I LOVE to play my Blood Angels. They are fast, and killy. They are not overpowered and the prices make them quite balanced. It is a very fun army to play. I run three 5-man assault squads with a single plasma pistol and a power fist. I have a 10 man tac squad in a rhino and a 10 man dev squad which I break into 2 combat squads. I run a few attack bikes with multi-meltas and a baal pred. For HQ I use either Lemartes and Corbulo or Dante and Corbulo. I don't have Mephiston painted yet (I primed him about 10 months ago!) But I will paint him soon and try him out. I always max out my free Death Company and I often run 1Veteran Assault Squad and Honor Guard too.
Blood Angels rock!
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
Blood Angels are gimped pretty much for three reasons:
1. Point cost
2. Point cost
3. Point cost
Pretty much all infantry types in the codex are higher in order to make up for the fact you get Death Company for free. Blood Angels are point for point higher than their equivalents.
Thus, if you're going to play Blood Angels or use their rules, you better damn well use Death Company.
The vehicles on the other hand aren't nearly as oppressive in price, so if you want some shooting in your army, make it vehicles. That means Baal Predators or normal Predators.
As for HQ selections, they still have the old school stat line that makes them weaker in comparison to the newer HQ choices in the codex as well as not having the new toys that Space Marines get. You'd be fine using the stock HQ choices, but with the special characters available for their point cost why NOT use them?
Otherwise, like the Dark Angels, who are also gimped by higher prices but sub-standard equipment and lack of flexibility in comparison to the codex Space Marines, they're on even footing.
In truth, I really don't see how the Angels codices are that badly gimped in comparison to the Space Marine codex. If you try to build these codex armies like a Vanilla codex army it's not going to work that well. It's because they're not supposed to be used like that! There's a reason why they have their own codex.
I wish the Space Wolf codex would come out sooner so I could get an idea of what they're going to be like in the 5th edition, that way I can decide what to do now...