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I've just removed two rhinos from my force, just because of the 4th edition rules. They used to transport my characters into cc, but since you can't assault from rhinos anymore, I've exchanged them for something else. My characters now ride bikes (accompanied by a bikesquad) or the more expensive option of a land raider.
But to my point. Me and my friends have discussed to field 'rhino-shoot' armies now instead of the old 'rhino-rush' armies that were so popular. Simply fill up the rhino with plasma (since you can rapid-fire on the move now), and burn straight into the enemy lines. This is especially useful when playing Space Wolves, since they still have alot of powerweapons/fists to take a charge the following round (along with the countercharge rule). But will the rhino still be as common with the new rules?
Bikes generally are not cost effective.. Its good you're trying new ways to play before the rules actually come out.
Just use jump packs, they're extremely good still.. Same range as rhino and just give your guys blind grenades. Bikes are +10 points and -1 attack so not good for CC squads
Rhinos will be used as they were intended finally, i just hope they dont make vehicles suck too much. Use rhinos as mobile fire bases to move around tactical squads
Good question, this will spur much debate. Essentially, they will have to suffer a turn of fire before they assault. Unless they use the Rhino as a screen, of course.
However, with the new rapid fire rules, you could dismount and shoot twice with bolters. Then, next turn you could charge, if you wished. This being the case, I think Rhinos and Razorbacks will still be common in 4th ed.
I just tried out the new 4th ed rules and I still found the Razorback to be a useful transport. I will post a batrep later today, but in it you'll see that I ran it right up the gut at a DA devastator squad that had all heavy bolters. My commander and tac squad eventually pasted most of his army in assault, while the Razorback survived unscathed. (Hint, always take smoke launchers when attempting this tactic!
If he really wanted to, he probably could have destroyed it, but he didn't feel like wasting all his Heavy Bolter shots on a vehicle he could only glance if he rolled a 6! His multi-meltas on the Ravenwing speeders got a little unlucky, but those smoke launchers sure helped (too bad they're one use only)!
In the new rules, a vehicle that takes a penetrating hit forces it's passengers to dismount. A destroyed vehicle also causes them to be pinned. Rough stuff!
I don't rely on transports anyway. I only include the Razorback because it's another option for moving troops, and enhances the overall speed of the army. If I really want to get troops into close combat, I take an assault squad--that's their purpose. IMO, jump packs maneuver better on a battlefield than tanks.
Purge all the heretics,
Kill the alien scum,
Suffer not the unclean to live,
And have a beer when you're done.
I'm thinking of giving a Devastator squad a Razorback, not for transporting them, just to give them an extra lascannon/heavy bolter/multi-multa shot each turn. I'll do the same with Rhinos. Shooty squads with an extra storm bolter attack. It's not much, but I'm getting my army every possible upgrade, and it'll fill the FO chart completely. Maybe with a few extra choices I don't have in the rest of the force. That way, no matter what points limit the game is, I have a good healthy selection to choose from, depending on my opponent. But I digress, so I'll end here.
Ravenwing: list made, now just to buy all the stuff on it (why do bikes have to be so expensive?)
I still say the rhino can still be in use. Its still some to screen, get you objectives, and whatever use you need them to have.
<img src='http://www.turnsignalsonalandraider.com/comics/000127.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I think Rhinos are still useful, but you just have to concentrate your firepower more. If you have four rhinos pull up, jump out and shoot another space marine squad into oblivion, then you've caused some real damage.
Against weaker armies, this tactic is just as devastating as charging. 20 bolter shots into an IG squad means that squad won't be there next turn.
I play White Scars, so my tactics haven't really been changed too much. WS's bikes are worth every point that you pay for them, especially with the Hit & Run, Born in the Saddle and Skilled Riders rules.
Yeah I agree they will still be used, but in a different way. I think they will be used as 'fire-bases', carrying shooty units backed up by a character for support in cc. This will probably end up in larger units (6+) of marines, since the bolters now get 2 shots each. Not many units nowadays (exept for space wolves perhaps) field more than 5 or 6 units in rhinos, since the extra bolters are just extra points. I've tried using rhinos for devastator squads, but with little success. They don't need either the protection or mobility granted by the rhino. They do better off alone, camping at the back of the army. :ph34r:
I'll still be using my rhino. The 12'' move is handy, plus its mobile cover - and In cityfight handy for blocking roads :lol: !
A Promise to a dead man means nothing.
Five Great Uses For A Rhino
With the new rules. As you cant screen anymore, you can just make it harder for the enemy to shoot at you with the mobile cover thing.
1. Mobile Cover
2. Blocking Enemy los and movement <--- (very good for making bottlenecks)
3. Seizing objectives quick
5. Tank Shocking
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks
Well the rhino is still gonna be very usefull and unreplacable with csm or sm armies.
Just having to come up with new tactics