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I for the most part have been playing a fairly standard Sisters 1k army list. I have yet to loose with them but I find that I struggle with cc vs some of the hardcore cc unit out there. It tends to go something like...
1) Rhino shows up and unloads SoB's
2) AoF and flame templates for every one.
at this point there are maybe at most three models left, but my Eldar playing friend has been using striking scorpions and even three of them cause all sorts of hell to my sisters and can keep them in cc all day long. It tends to take a small unit of Serephim to come and unlock things, but by that point my squad of SoBs has lost a bunch of weight. I am thinking a maybe giving the VSS an eviserator as no matter what my girls will strike last vs Eldar, but then I tend to martyr my VSS for the faith point.
It is pretty much the same story vs CSMs and would love to know how some of you peoples out there deal with this sort of problem.
I'm not really any more experienced than you, but my solution is to focus fire on squads that have to die. I use my rhinos to block los and try to use the mobility of being mobilized to come out where I want. It just takes practice to know just how much force to apply to each squad. I still haven't learned it yet, but that's part of what makes this army so rewarding.
Really, just like chess, the trick is to plan a few moves ahead. If you plan it so that you manage to eliminate everything in a small area around your sisters so that nothing can assault, then you can easily wipe other armies off the board.
I'm trying to catalog every song with a reference to yetis or Sasquatch. Please help.
The focus of fire is what you've got to do.
Imagine you're in a fist fight and you if could put the power of 70% of your body all into one punch. It would hurt so much, your opponent would be partially disabled for the rest of the fight. It wouldn't enable you to start being stupid, but it will make the win easier.
I realize that it's pretty easy for us to sit in front of the computer and say, "focus your fire".
A good opponent knows exactly that's your plan.
One thing to realize is that a WH army can issue that punch in one phase. Any phase.
One good shooting phase can seriously hurt any army.
So be patient.
To answer your question directly, there's nothing wrong with one or
two eviscerators appearing among your Sister of Battle Troop squads.
But make sure you issue your first two to your Seraphim, and your Cannoness.
An Eversor is another tool to consider.
Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! -stjohn70
I've been wondering about this too, especially vs. Orks. I mean yeah, flame templates and mass rapid fire hurts, but those Ork units can get pretty ridiculously big. And once they get the charge in, that's a lot of dice rolling and a lot of SOBs dropping. Also, how exactly are you supposed to use seraphim against assault armies? If you get within 12" to shoot they'd be able to assault you next turn, and charging your seraphims into huge Ork units or nobz is tantamount to suicide so what would you use them for? Assault the 3-5 models left after extreme concentrated fire from 2-3 units of sisters?
I am actually thinking of berhaps giving my VSS braziers for that extra template and at that point things should be a bit more managable.
The trick is to use the seraphim to finish off the enemy, not to try and take them on at full strength. Their small numbers and low Toughness mean that seras can be dragged down by sheer volume of attacks.
Also bear in mind that seraphim pack nearly as much firepower as a battle squad themselves, so can take part in a focus fire. Open up on the enemy unit you want killed, then charge the survivors. Best case is that the seraphim wipe them out, otherwise the seras can just bounce away at the end of his assault phase, leaving them high and dry.
Large squads of orks and other swarmers like gaunts are dangerous, but for all their numbers they evaporate once you lay a few flame templates on them. One though is not enough, you need at least two, preferably 3+, and them being Hflamers is a big help. I am a big fan of giving battle squads Hflamer and flamer, rather than Hflamer and meltagun, and even reinforcing it further with a combi-flamer.
Meltaguns in a battle squad are not very effective much of the time. They usually miss, and one shot is not enough to threaten tanks seriously. The once-in-a-blue-moon where it blows up a tank is not worth the serious dimunition of anti-infantry firepower. Even against armoured infantry with auto-hit, ignore cover saves and lots of wounds inflicted a flamer will often statistically speaking do more damage anyway, even without DG, let alone with it.
One thing to really watch out for when fighting assaulty armies is super HQ units, and other insanely tough units. The sisters cannot take these on in assault at all, no matter how much they tool up seras, canonesses and celestians. Letting them get into assault is just handing kill points to the enemy. I don't hesitate to concentrate the fire of my entire army (or as much as I can manage) on these units, so dangerous are they.
Another tactic to remember is that sisters can be extraordinarily stubborn in assault due to the BoSL, ignoring the most savage beatings. Not being fearless can actually be a big advantage for this in 5ed. As a result a battle squad can tie down an enemy unit for some time with a bit of luck, allowing you to get on with the battle. Moving well away from the combat can put the assault unit badly out of position when it does finally grind the sisters away.
Charging in with the seras to rescue another unit is a tactic that should be avoided if at all possible. My seras tend to do more damage in the shooting phase than the assault phase, so rescues waste a lot of their hitting power. I will abandon a battle squad to die if necessary, preferring to use the seras to destroy a fresh unengaged enemy unit. That said if there is nothing more pressing and there are just a few enemies hitting on the battle sisters I will send the seras in, as they can win an assault quickly if they have a good numerical advantage.
Finally, and maybe a little off topic, I have had good results in the past with using the WH crazies against MEq assaulty armies. Repentia of course suck unconditionally in all circumstances, but arco-flags can be deadly if used well. Priests can be made effective by using them with zealots, which can be very powerful, but are fragile and vulnerable and need careful handling.
I've not had problems with large ork hordes. I soften them up with a shooty Inq ret. then the next turn hit them with a SoB squad.
it's not hard to knock down a LOT of Orks with those 2 squads. You might not wipe them, but you should be able to kill off 12 orks easily with a SoB squad with Hflamer/flamer and I've easily killed off 10 more with a DH Inq Lord Shooty Retinue. Usually you can get them shot down to take a Ld test.
I've also found that 2 SoB squads can handily put the hurt on a 30-strong ork squad.
Around other assault based armies, trying to swing to deny a flank is invaluable. Isolate, and destroy. It works even with Black Templar. You want to have only 1 squad moving faster towards you if you can help it.
I think one of the basic ideas for focused fire is to use units in tandem. It can be executed well with a denied flank type of tactical idea, or with a Castle type strategy. I've found that a lot of 40K players think of using 1 unit to counter another unit. I suppose that idea works for some forces, but I find I prefer being able to shift to put two or more of my units to exterminate a unit, then move them on to kill the next unit.
Focused Fire Tandem strategy takes some practice to execute. against a mobile enemy, it's downright tough.
Another good point is having counter-charge units to help clean up the inevitable skirmish that will result from the last assault marine standing. Seraphim with an Evisc. are great for this. This is my Seraphim's secondary role, after killing tanks, and IC's. Jumpy cannonesses are great for this as well, either with the Blessed Weapon for high Init, or with a Evisc. for extra Str.
As an expereinced player, I think I have a few points to throw in.
FIRSTLY - Who ever fails to put in meltaguns in a Battle Sister squad is a fool. Unless you have a dedicated AT squad in your army (Exorcists not inclusive), you will have an impossible time up against fast mech armies. And they atend to my pretty popular these days.
SECONDLY - The best way to fight an assault army is to dodge. Strike where the enemy can least afford it. Dodge his blows (move your sisters away from fire lanes). If you cant dodge (Tyranid mass wave), you have to fight through a wave. Use staggered combats, so that when you have no choice but to absorb an enemy assault, you have more models behind the assaulted unit to fire back when the foremost squad gets decimated.
THIRDLY - Positioning and grouping is the key to success. I always tend to make my Rhinos work in pairs to allow concentrated fire effectively.
As a rough guideline against T4 Power Armoured Units - two squads will wipe a 10 man squad out 90% of the time.
Against 2+, two squads of 10 sisters each can take down a 5 man termie squad 90% of the time, easy as.
So usually, two squads each is the optimum combo.
I did'nt read through the thread (sorry if this has been mentioned) but a few things I've found works. First is too isolate the unit and focus fire until it is completely destroyed and then using seraphim and cannonesses too tarpit the other units around the assault unit preventing you from being assaulted. Or shoot and finish off with a cannoness or seraphim.
I used to advocate the multi-purpose Hflamer/melta squad. I found I could possibly do a lot of types of things (possible anti-tank, some anti-infnatry) but I couldn't do anything superbly with the squad.
With a Hflamer/flamer, I can EAT infantry, even Heavy Infantry with DG.
I've found that an anti-tank Seraphim squad in itself is golden. 3BP sera, 2Inferno pistols, VSS with BP and Evisc. if you need tanks dead, they can maneuver, hide, hit-n-run, and use SotM pretty well too. I greatly appreciate the Twin linking on the melta pistols too.
MY experience has been not to count on melta armed SoB squads to take down any tanks. even BS4 misses 1/3 of the time, and usually when you really need it.