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First of all: The number of Melee attacks a Space Marine has. They have A1 stat, but also in the 5th Ed Codex every Tactical/Devastator Marine carries a Bolt Pistol as well as a Bolter. Does that mean that, even when armed with a Flamer (Which only replaces their Bolter, not the Bolt Pistol) or Missile Launcher, they have 2 attacks in assaults? I mean, it seems pretty obvious to me when I think about it, but I'm never 100% sure even with three different rulebooks laid out in front of me. And similarily, does this give Assault Marines/Sergeants with Chainswords 3 attacks?
Secondly, the rule "Poison 2+" for the 5th Edition version of the Hellfire round means "Always wounds on rolls of 2+", doesn't it? I'm asking since this isn't covered in the rulebook or the Codex, and I want to be 100% sure so I don't look like an ass.
Thirdly, "Master Crafted" weaponry. I recall in the older Codexes there was a rule to add "Master Crafted" to a particular weapon a HQ carried for some points, but when looking through the 5th Ed I see no such option anywhere. This one probably confuses me the most, but I wonder, does this mean Master Crafting weapons isn't an option, and reserved specifically for Special Characters (if that's the case it doesn't make sense to have it listed in the "Wargear" section) or have I just missed the particular line I should be looking for?
And lastly, a thing that just annoys me. Why the hell do Sniper rifles have no armour piercing properties in Warhammer 40k? I mean, there are modern sniper rifles specifically designed to take out small armoured vehicles or large trucks... Bah, I say.
#1 - I believe regular Marines still only have 1 attack in CC, because they don't have two CC weapons. They only have the pistol and their bolter. The pistol allows them to fire something while charging. Assault Marines have 2 attacks because they have a pistol and a chainsword. If I'm correct, a sergent with a chainsword and pistol would have 3 attacks because of the base 2.
#2 - Poison 2+ means they always wound on a 2+. It's mentioned in the main rulebook under CC weapons.
#3 - Master-crafted weapons are probably only in the wargear section of the codex because some character weapons are called master-crafted in their description.
#4 - I know, right? I hate that sniper rifles are pretty much shooting spit balls, and the new rending on a 6+ doesn't comfort me too much.
I hope this helps (and I'm reading correctly).
Thanks for the help. Silly thing putting a Close Combat Special Rule on a type of ranged ammo, eh!
Although the Rulebook says that "Pistol"-type weapons count as an "additional close combat weapon" in addition to being able to fire once while moving.
As The Commodore has promptly put it
However, Master Crafted Weapons are for Special Characters only, BUT if you Read Digital Weapons, i believe it gives you the same thing? (albeit a Re-roll to Wound rather than to Hit)
But thats my 2c :p
Last edited by Shaabhekh; January 2nd, 2009 at 02:17.
In the name of the Emperor and for the Glory of the Imperium... Gimme Back My Girlfriend! :(
Because sniper rifles are just small arms, no more no less. You're referring to anti-material rifles i.e. Barret .50 cal, 15 and 20mm. These really aren't sniper rifles, as most snipers aren't gonna lug something like that around unless they really need the extra range or need to stop a truck.And lastly, a thing that just annoys me. Why the hell do Sniper rifles have no armour piercing properties in Warhammer 40k? I mean, there are modern sniper rifles specifically designed to take out small armoured vehicles or large trucks... Bah, I say.
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009
For an example of this done right, the Tau Pulse Rifles have 5 Str, which allows them to take Penetrating hits on light vehicles (ergo 10 Armour rating) with a bucket of luck. Bolters, with Str 4, can still score Glancing hits, enough to do some serious (or just frustrating) damage.
Yet a Sniper rifle's only way of dealing with vehicles is described as firing at "weak spots" and "weapon slits". While making sense when applied to tanks and heavy transports, it seems a little odd when firing on ork wartrakks and other similar light vehicles.
And none of this touches on the fact that both the previously mentioned weapons have an AP value of 5, which renders 'regular' body armour (Imperial Guard flak armour, that is) useless.
Sniper rifles that can't penetrate body armour? In a universe where certain creatures have body armour as a biological quirk?! What were they thinking?!
I was merely making the point that your concept on modern sniper rifles was a tad misguided as the examples you were looking at are special purpose weapons.
You really shouldn't try to apply logic or your concept of real combat to 40K. It's a universe where even with unholy guns, a bunch of berzerkers with axes can slaughter a few legions.
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009
Logic applies to Warhammer, just not to the Adeptus Mechanicus <_<
If we're still on all this nonsense about sniper rifles, I'd like to add that a sniper rifle is still firing a considerably weaker round in comparison to all the other basic weapons listed (Bolters are basically miniature rockets, Pulse Rifles are plasma pulses and Rail rifles, the closest high powered equivalent, are firing a slug at extremely high velocities) The sniper rifle the scout touts around may be considered an anti-material rifle by today's standards, but the round it's firing is still considerably weaker compared to the weapons just listed. These weapons rely on the power of the round to stop its target.
The sniper rifle on the other hand is a precision weapon. Its effectiveness relies entirely on its ability to aim for weak points. The round the sniper rifle is firing is still just a bullet not an exploding rocket that detonates once it's penetrated, it's not a plasma burst and it's not a solid slug moving at ridiculously high speeds. This is represented by how the rifle wounds, with the rending rule meaning the sniper's round struck exactly as intended.
In addition, it makes little sense for a sniper rifle to destroy any vehicle in general. When firing at an Ork Wartrukk or a similarly light vehicle, the weakpoint the sniper is aiming for is probably the driver, or one of the obviously exposed fuel tanks, etc. which is more difficult than you may have been led to believe. It makes sense when being applied to even light vehicles. Sure that sniper rifle might have shot out the wheel of that Wartrukk, but does that really matter to the Wartrukk?
As for the sniper rifle having such a low AP value, I think that's rather lame as well; should've been at least AP 5, but oh well.
Besides, the game is structured for balance after all. If this were true to fluff, a Space Marine army ought to consist of only twenty guys and be capable of maiming pretty much everyone else.
But hell, that's just my two kidneys.
Love, Sayomi Akimoto.
Last edited by Sayomi Akimoto; January 2nd, 2009 at 15:36. Reason: Oops, gotta watch my spelling.
My whole argument was based on not having to aim for a particular weakpoint, possibly punching a hole through the engine instead.In addition, it makes little sense for a sniper rifle to destroy any vehicle in general. When firing at an Ork Wartrukk or a similarly light vehicle, the weakpoint the sniper is aiming for is probably the driver, or one of the obviously exposed fuel tanks, etc. which is more difficult than you may have been led to believe.
I'm really just saying that it doesn't make sense to have a rifle made to take out someone's eye while leaving the skull intact, when your most likely targets are going to be people with a tank strapped to their face (Power Armour or worse) or giant alien insect-reptiles with twenty arms, sixty eyes and a skin about as thick as a concrete wall.