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i need help decideing SM or DH im new to warhammer 40k and ive been playing DH and SM (vanilla) against 'nids, 'crons, and DE and i have a question that im going to need you to be unbiased for
at 750 points i have avioded playing the DH, they just dont have the readily available low AP weapons and drop pods...
ok i have a question for all of you, the other day i drop podded an ironclad with melta gun and heavy flamer and killed 1/2 a hormaguant squad with the flamer and deathwind then proceeded to injure hid carnifex and kill it next turn with the ironclad
then my snipers and another dread with PC and TLAC killed off a broodlord and wounded a lictor one of the best first turns ive ever had
do you guys think i will ever be able to pull anything like this with the DH?
in other words, i crushed my friends army in one turn, can i do this with DH?
P.S. i do LOVE the CC prowess and shooty greatness of the DHs but i dunno, they dont really have the low AP weaponry as SM...
Last edited by usmc_red; January 6th, 2009 at 01:47. Reason: sucky spelling and grammar, its still bad but it was horrible before
At 750 points you can take 20 PAGK who will net 40 shots a turn, 30 hits and 15-20 wounds depending on what you are shooting at. That could be 240 points of stealers on turn one. One third of his army gone...and that still leaves you 200 points to get terminators in your list.
However if you want to have ablsolutely crushing vicotries I don't think DH is the way to go. As an army we are underpowered because of codex creep, and have not gotten the point reduction that other armies have recieved (orks mainly, but jumping marines have gotten mighty cheap too). I think we play for fun and the challenge of going in outnumbered and out gunned (in sense of power not volume), and with so few models one bad turn can wreck your game.
Not even the Space Marines are the Killy Army of Doom you appear to be looking for, usmc_red. In that 750 pt game you brought a big gun to a knife fight. Try the same thing in the context of a much larger engagement -- even one as small as the "standard" 1500 pt list -- and you'll find yourself garnering nowhere near that amount of success with any single unit again ... even that awesome drop-podding ironclad.
If you really want an army that gets in an enemy's face and tears them apart in close combat, you want Orks, Tyranids, Dark Eldar, Daemons. Even certain Eldar builds will be better at dishing out close combat pain than any Marine-equivalent army can do.
And if you want capable close-combat marines, you don't want to go vanilla marines, either. Black Templars are a serious force to be reckoned with, as are the Space Wolves. Both of those are much more suited to assault engagements than any other Marine force, be they loyalist or traitor.
And since you do like the Grey Knights -- and why shouldn't you? -- I would suggest either of these latter forces as your base army, allowing you to ally in a few GK units to taste. You liked your ironclad, but have you seen a unit of GK Terminators wading through enemies yet?
The reason that the DH/GKs aren't suitable as an assault force is because points prevent us from fielding enough to make that a viable overall tactical approach. The only way to consistently succeed with GKs is to play conservatively, cautiously, constantly maximizing every single model's potential at both shooting and assaulting. Victories can be consistently had, but they will very rarely be blowouts, and it takes serious tactical discipline to achieve. This is not an easy army to play. In fact, it is probably the single most difficult 40K force to master.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
hmm... how dare i fall from the path, its near heresy, if i wasnt going to fall to the space marines, it would be
eh, who cares about a few loses its worth sucking it up for my ordo