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I apologize for the title, I edited this message afterwords.
I am a new player trying to choose between Blood Angels and Raven Guard. Factors for me:
Ease of Painting
Performance (A.I. which is more competitive)
Last edited by j03j3tp4ck; January 7th, 2009 at 01:57.
BA suffer from the same problems DA do, everything they have, Codex marines can do better and for cheaper.
There are some exceptions for BA however.
They've got scoring Assault Troops, making the all jump pack army viable. They've got Death Company, Lemartes (superior Chaplains), VAS, Dante, Corbulo, overcharged engines, and Baal Preds. A BA army can run an army of all jump packers with DC to shield while Corbulo gives the whole army furious charge (something like that). Lemartes is awesome compared to the wimpy SM Chaplains, and they have speedier vehiclers.
A RG army has the entire SM Codex at its disposal, featuring more and better units for less. It's also got Shrike, letting you infiltrate one squad (hello TH/SS Termies!) and giving the entire army fleet.
I'd pick the SM Codex any day.
Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com
Cassius isn't wimpy at all and for the same point value. No Jump Pack thoughLemartes is awesome compared to the wimpy SM Chaplains,
Well, ==Me== has already pointed out the advantages of the Blood Angels, so I don't repeat that again. Just these additional notes:
Corbulo gives "Furious Charge" to units within 12 inches only.
The Furioso Dreadnought is a steal pointswise.
The Veteran Assault Squad has the more painful upgrade options than the Vanguard Veterans.
The points for Blood Angels units aren't that expensive anymore compared to the standard Marines' Codex when you subtract the points included for the Death Company.
If you're happy with that, you can either stop here or go on and do the details.
- Basecoat with white spray paint.
- Paint the entire miniature with Mechrite Red (foundation color).
- Wash the entire Miniature with Ogryn Flesh (one of the new washes).
- Apply rims of Blood Red paint for highlights on the miniature.
One thing you seriously need to consider is the fact that you don't have to make an "either - or" decision. If you collect Blood Angels, you can leave their unique equipment at home and easily play standard Marines. We call that "playing red Marines". I have the Codex: Space Marines sitting at home in my shelf as well plus the Blood Angels Codex is a free PDF, so you really can have the best of both worlds.
"Fear not and look up to the sky for salvation, for we have entered orbit."
Blood Angels 2nd Grail Guard Company
My primary army is Ultramarines, but I have been playing Blood Angels for about a year now and I love them! Don't get me wrong, I love the new SM codex, but Blood Angels are different and they are very killy. Scoring units of jump-pack troops is awesome. The baal predator is very cool. Corbulo combo'ed with Dante is all kinds of fun! Get your death company in on the action and you can kill anything on the table just about. Mephiston is a killing nightmare! On a charge he can get up to TEN power weapon attacks at S5 at initiative 6!!! (That is with the chapter banner nearby.) He kills tons of stuff all by himself...
Blood Angels ROCK!!
Once a Marine, always a Marine.
It all depends on your style of play, if you like balanced marines then go for the normal codex or if you like to be the in your face kind of guy, then blood angels is it. i currently have 4500 pts of BA and I love them better than normal marines. i load my tactical marines and i love it when my opponent just stares at my 18" move with my rhinos (24" on a road). you can't forget that veteran assault squads are cheaper than vanguard and still have all kinds of goodies. There's also dante, who gives preferred enemy, -1 to WS and I against enemies, makes units fearless around him, and his standard bearer gives +1 attack. nasty for an all jump pack force.
scoring units that can move 15.5" on average per turn is awesome. run a few squads of those with a dc/lemartes and watch as you shred everything in your way short of genestealers and wyches.
those are what baals and vindicators are for
Well i am new in the blood angels, i played tau for a year and the only thing i can say is that BA are solid and more then good.
I played a lot of games against my friend with his chaos forces and tau rarely maked me happy with onboard prestations but now with blood angels its a different world.
I played 3 games now against him, streak: 1W 2D 0L
We have strong and powerfull HQ choises and combinations. In a 1500pts force i only run lemartes or sometimes with corbulo. In 2000 pts i will take dante, everything that will hit on 3 + in CC sounds good. As elites we have our death company , a model with furious charge,feel no pain,fearless and rending attacks is powerfull and a upgrade for 5 points for a jumppack is nothing. Troops with jumppacks or overcharged rhino's is awesome, mobility is the key. We can choose our fight on the board with that kind of mobility. Anti tank on cheap attack bikes with again a lot of mobility, move 12" shoot 24" is a range from 36" and double penetration on 24"
I also like the furioso dreadnought that can be upgraded to a deathcompanny dready ( painfull )
As heavy support we have the baal predators that can lay a high amount of anti infantery fire.
There are a lot of people that are complaining about that several squads cost more points than their counterparts in other space marines codexes but this extra cost covers the points required for the death companny models the squad allows you to take.
I will give some pro's and contra's how i feel the blood angels play
-Death companny ( everybody is afraid of it )
-The history from the chapter
-On some maps without manny cover you will take some high losses when your moving in. But when arrived its partytime. ( This happens when your army list is full CC orientated ) I have a new army list with shooting parts in it so this contra will be errased.
-Most of the times outnumbered, but my first game with blood angels i slain 70 models of chaos with a army of 39 models, it was my first victory.
Most of the stuff I'm going to say has probably already been said by some people but I think I'm going to repeat it anyway for emphasis with some of my own thoughts.
Blood Angels are still a pretty good army. I didn't find that my own army was adversely affected by the 5th Edition rules apart from a few things. Some things got better and some things got worse. Well actually the only thing that really got worse under 5th Ed in my opinion was Baal Predators because now they find it more difficult to move and fire all of their guns but this can easily be mitigated by effective use of cover and a turn or two of flat-out movement. Now in exchange for that we get Attack Bikes with multi-meltas, which are good in the Blood Angels codex for the same reasons that they are in the normal Marine one. I would also say that the inability to consolidate into close combat anymore hasn't hampered me nearly as much as I thought it would because it's actually my practice to use assault squads to hold up particularly dangerous enemies anyway before sending in the Death Company to wipe them out. The new rules on Rending just mean that I kill them twice over instead of five times over.
That said the Blood Angels don't really have that many choices or options compared to Codex Marines. Their assault squads are cheaper than ours and have combat tactics although they cannot take objectives like ours can and I find that having an Assault Marine squad that can take objectives can be very helpful at times. The one thing I've always felt that Space Marines lacked however was a real hammer unit to crack very tough enemies, which we got in the form of the Death Company. People are afraid of them and will do everything in their power to kill them but at the end of the day they don't matter as much to you because you can't take objectives with them and they are pretty cheap compared to other things in your army.
All of this means that you can't afford to not be aggressive with Blood Angels, but not to the point where you're rushing forward every turn. For all of their power, I think that playing them well requires a patient mindset, good setups and dominating the opponent in terms of mobility. Take out anything that could get in your way before it has a chance to strike and keep a few tactical squads with Rhinos to hold the center if things get out of hand.
Now, in terms of tactical flexibility, there aren't many ways to accomplish this because our codex is a little short on options. We do a few things and we do them well, unlike Codex Marines. The colour scheme is very easy and there are many different ways to do red, but my favorite is Mechrite followed by two washes of Baal Red. As to which is more competitive? I saw a lot of Blood Angels armies at the last tournament I went to and they did reasonably well. I'm pretty sure not everyone has become enamoured of the new Space Marine codex and that there will still be BA players this year too.
Not to mention their fluff is awesome and a little conversion goes a long way. I even got some of those old metal shoulderpads for my tactical squads. Not a big fan of transfers.
Great posts guys.
As a new BA player this type of discussion is priceless
Finally getting round to finshing my Tallarn Imperial Guard Army (2K)
Everything else has been sacrificed on the Altar of eBay...