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Hello again, after looking at the ravenwing and seeing them as a little expensive I found myself looking though the SM codex at the bikers. Although they lack a few of the special rules like scout and free teleport homers the SM bikers were cheaper. Also the new SM codex allows greater flexibility and less cost in most areas.
Seeing as I still love the raven wing models I would use their models but have them as a DIY chapter, something to do with wings so I would incorporate the wing iconography. Also I put these questions forward with the view to create a biker list and back it up with anything it lacks (long ranger heavies and cc springs to mind)
1) Is it worth paying for the Ravenwing extras over the normal SM bikes?
2) Is it worth using the DA codex at all in the light of the new SM codex?
3) If I were to make a bike list how would you plug the gaps?
4) Is an SM bike list, with the right support viable/competitive?
5) Is ravening viable/competitive?
Any and all advice is greatly appreciated
1) Generally no. Scouting is a nice bonus, but it doesn't make up for Fearless and the huge disparities in points cost. If you're using Ravenwing, you had better have Deathwing along for the rid or you're better off with the SM Codex.
2) Nope DW/RW synergy aside, the book offers very little
3) Bikers are cheap and plentiful, they tend to suffer by having low numbers. Going all mounted gives you supreme mobility and all those tl bolters, meltas, and flamers should make handling armor and hordes much easier. Definitely bring a few Scout Bikes and a Bike mounted Command Squad for some extra options and a hard-hitting assault unit respectively.
4) It's a lot better than a RW list, that's for sure. You've got the mobility, high T, and plenty of weapons. They suffer from low model count and in combat (they're usually better off shooting), but it isn't as bad with cheap bikes and big squads, plus awesome characters lending a hand.
5) It's viable if you bring Deathwing along, but I wouldn't field them on their own.
1) No, The increased bike and Leader costs make it moot.
2) Pretty much For a terminator niche army only - That's viable.
3) ? With gap fillers ? You're fine, It does what it says on the tin.
4) Yep, to a extent
5) On it's own? Hell no.
I am just wonderht about having the White Scars as your chapter as they depend on Bikes quite heavily for there lighting strikes as im use that would mean that there slightly cheaper point wise(Dont take this for 100% btw).
An it just seems to me for what you want to do they would be a better option for you
WIP SM Crimson Fists
Here's the original thread i mentioned earlier:
DA chaplains kick SM ones all to hell and back, too. People say not to stick ravenwing in assault, but I've had simply amazing results charging into enemy lines with an interrrogator chaplain on bike accompanied by six ravenwing bikes (one with power sword). Combining the buffs provided by a chaplain with the T5 and mobility of bikes is sick, especially when you're adding in the chaplain's own I5/WS5 attacks!
The only other real plusses are Sammy (simply amazing in either form) and the ability to take an apothocary on a bike....or a banner, which would go nicely with the chappy-led bike assault squad mentioned above.
Overall, I'd say that SM bikes are probably not as good for the points as RW bikes, but white scars bikes are better than RW, so it comes down to whether you're talking bikes as troops or bikes ISO your standard army. A white scars army is better than a ravenwing army, but ravenwing bikes do more for a DA army than SM bikes do for a SM army. If that makes sense.
Last edited by Marnepup; January 13th, 2009 at 13:11.
IG since 1999 __ DA since 2002 __ Tau since 2005 __ SoB since 2007
Brets 1997-1999 __ TK since 2009 __ Empire since 2010
I'm not a fan of Khan. Outflanking is too random and too easy to counter, I'd prefer to have combat tactics and start units on the board.
It is a shame we can't take an honour guard on bikes.
I do like flank march though. It really messes with people. Since you are on bikes it almost doesn't matter what side you come in on - the only problem I have is coming on late in the game.
I still have a squad of scouts and an assault squad and a loaded rhino of troops to support my bikes in 1500 points. I would like to use all bikes but I do not have enough and I think it would be too easy to kill them off with anti-mech armies. Bikes are expensive.
Firstly thanks to all who replied, really hit the mark of what i wanted to know. So now I’m narrowing down the options. I would like to go for a bike list, or have the majority mounted anyway.
So here’s the second wave of questions:
1) Scout bikes – worth having?
2) Putting assault troops in the list to help in CC – good idea?
3) Not too keen on the White Scars paint scheme, any other fast strike chapters worth looking at? Raven guard maybe?
4) HQ – Chaplain, Captain or Chapter Master?
5) Attack bike squadron or attack bikes attached to normal bike squardons?
I've been playing Ravenwing for a while and here is what I have found:
1> You can't play either shooty or assaulty. You have to be very tactically flexible and play a Water Warrior style. You need to assault shooty units and shoot assaulty units. Ravenwing are good at shooting, but not the best and less good at assaulting but decent against shooty troops with a power weapon and T5. I have one squad with a Powerfist and take the Ravenwing Banner that gives that squad an extra attact, I have a regular Chaplain on a bike for this squad too.
2> Pick on one flank at a time. Use your scout move and superior movement to screw up your enemies perception of your initial deployment. Shift all your army and pick on one of his flanks and destroy it. You play Ravenwing a lot like Mech Tau.
3> Smaller games are better for Ravenwing. Games of 1000 - 1200pts are perfect. You get lots of room to move around in. Bigger games you lose area to move around in and I recommend using some Grey Knight Termies as they are better all around than Deathwing overall. Deathwing add on is also beneficial if you take Belisle as all your units can be troop choices.
4> It is probably more competative to take a Space Marine bike army, as you get a lot more diverse support units, more units that can take bikes and yes I would definatly get Scout Bikers. (Infiltrate + Scout move = 1 turn assault). The only thing cheaper for Dark Angels is 15pts cheaper for the now excellent Lanspeeder Typhoons.
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