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  1. #1
    Member Grizgran Grimgor's Avatar
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    Joining the Ordo

    First of all, hello and thank you to all the experienced (and less so) captains viewing this topic. I've been an Ork player for three years and will continue playing them, but I've decided to start a second army and am strangely gravitated towards the Emperor's finest. Perhaps it's my friends turn to white scars himself, or simply a desire for a smaller, elite army. Right now I've brought down my choices to Deathwing or Templar. I realize the much higher tactical flexibility of BT and love their fluff, but the idea of an all termie army after Orks is very powerful. I'd just like to get the opinions of you guys, and hell, maybe i'll be convinced to push them both aside and wait for the SW codex. Anything can happen.

    Remember, fight like an ork, but never dance like one. Unless thats your thing.
    The Immortal Sons of Change (VC): 3-1-1

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  3. #2
    Superflat Monogram Sayomi Akimoto's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Spess Mehreens mah boi!

    So your two choices are Black Templar or Death Wing, or so you tell us. I can only tell you what I believe are the pros and cons of both, and let you decide from there.

    As an Ork player for quite some time, I'm assuming you're sick of having so many goddamn boyz on the field. The Death Wing Terminator army is obviously much smaller than that green tide, considering that you'll find yourself using as few as eleven models on the field. Thus is it's strength; extremely high quality soldiers can can take and hold objectives as troops. Its downside is obviously small numbers and limited equipment they can bring to the field. If you want to play pure Deathwing, your only options are Terminators, Dreadnoughts and Land Raider.

    Your Terminators have the benefit of switching between Lightning Claws, Thunder hammers and Storm Shields as well as the traditional power fist and Storm Bolter. I recommend going with the Storm Bolter most of the time, as you are in the statistical minority; you'll want to be shooting as much as possible. Should your foe be purely shooting and you be purely close combat, there's obviously going to be a problem. A healthy mix in my opinion is also effective if you believe you are going to be engaging in close combat often, at which point Lightning claws are probably what you need. A heavy weapon is almost always necessary; I prefer the assault cannon despite the nerf, it's still got plenty of kick. On the other hand you can take the flexible missile launcher and still have your storm bolter, which is looking rather attractive as days go by. The flamer on the other hand is too specialized for your needs; you just don't have the points to specialize.

    At kill points you will obviously rock, barring you don't lose all your forces simultaneously. Normal objective based games will be far trickier, as you will have far fewer capturing elements available to you. In addition, your forces are going to be concentrated in small, five man squads, as Dark Angels Terminators cannot take full ten man squads. This means they will be relatively easily wiped away from concentrated fire. You will also be affected by bad dice far more than when you had your orks. Every single loss will hurt and it will be tough maximizing your forces while capitalizing purely on your opponent's mistakes.

    You do have a few advantages other than simple stats. First off, you can deepstrike the entire army, save the Raiders. Risky, but not without the obvious benefits. In your case however this is far too risky, as the loss of even a single squad can severly impact your plans. The second is that you are relatively mobile compared to everyone else. You can move and shoot to full effect.

    Black Templar on the other hand are a completely different kettle of fish. They're a generalist army that leans towards assaulting. They come in three different flavors; the mech rush where Crusaders are spammed, swarm armies where you spam crusader squads, and drop pod armies, not very different from everyone else.

    What really seperates Black Templars from other Space Marines is their vows; the mandatory Emperor's Champion must select one of four vows; two are rather shoddy, one is alright and the last one is almost mandatory. That last one is Accept Any Challenge No Matter the Odds; it gives your entire army, barring neophytes/scouts but including Dreadnoughts, preferred enemy.

    While this by no means makes the Black Templar assault specialists, it's very powerful when used in conjunction with the Crusader Spam. The sheer number of re-rolls is mind boggling.

    However, they carry their own weaknesses. They suffer from a general lack of sergeants and thus localized leadership, necesitating you buy a Marshal for ld10. In addition, that lack of sergeants reduces the assault power of the squads.

    In summary, the Deathwing will really force you to be tactical, as you must pick and choose where you fight and when; you will be punished harshly for your own mistakes and may take a while to get used to. That Terminator armor helps, but not as much when the entire army is in Terminator armor. The Black Templars on the other hand can play in pretty much every capacity you'd like to. They can do a Land Raider assault, a Marine Rush, do shoting quite well now that target priority is gone and do most of the things normal Codex Marines can do.

    Well, that's my two kidenys.

    Love, Sayomi Akimoto.

  4. #3
    Senior Member Parcival's Avatar
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    Grizgran,

    I play both Orkz and Space Marines - Blood Angels that is - as well.

    I started with Orkz in 4th edition, but didn't like the way I had to play them back then. For me, Orkz are hundreds of Boyz who chop the enemy into pieces in close combat. I enjoy the fear in the eyes of my fellow players when they just see a sea of green accross the table. However, soon they found out how to shoot them into pieces before I could get into close combat - running wasn't available back then.

    So I gave in to my craving to play the ones I admired since my teens - Space Marines. I purchased a Blood Angels army, just because they were cheap on Ebay. However, soon I found out that Blood Angels are being played the way I want to play Orkz. Blood Angels have Assault Squads as regular troops - in other words, you can have 60 chainswords with jump packs flying at the enemy. And there it was again, the fear in the eyes of my fellow players. And did I mention the Blood Angels' Death Company adds to the frenzy as well?

    Grizgran, if you think about Black Templars and Space Wolves - two very fine chapters indeed - you also wanna have a look at the Sons of Sanguinius - especially since the Blood Angels Codex can freely be downloaded from the Games Workshop website.
    "Fear not and look up to the sky for salvation, for we have entered orbit."
    Blood Angels 2nd Grail Guard Company

  5. #4
    Member simonilicious's Avatar
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    well if you're thinking about getting into the deathwing check out firebase issue #2
    FIREBASEMAG - WarSeer

    they have two good articles on the deathwing.

    ofc opinions differ, but since theyre such an 'elite' army, its important to max out on infantry, so all infantry DW is generally regarded the way to go. but read the articles and all will come clear

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