Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
ok guys my marines are in a slight problem, our dark brothers from the warp...
what advantages do we have over them that i can exploit, and what should be done to defeat they're cheaper and more numerous men?
one of my buddies just picked up a battle force but i expect more to come, what can you guys tell me about defeating or at least combating the CSM?
I don't play CSM but from what I know here are a few tips:
1) Avoid close combat because a)Khorne army have +1A, b)Slaaneshes have +1I, c)Nurgle marines +1T, and d)Tzeentch 5+Inv or +1 Inv. They have big advantage over you in CC.
2)Sternguards are good anti-CSM with their special ammo. Add Pedro Kantor and they count as scoring units also!
3) Watch out for the Thousand Sons army. Their bolters are marine killers. Against them mount your troops in rhinos and pick up terminators. Also get librarian w/pyschic hood to protect against their force weapons.
4) Your TH/SS assault termies rock esp. against a CC-oriented army! If you use them, make sure you protect them (i.e. LR) cuz they're gonna draw a lot of fire.
5) Be care of Chaos Lords w/daemonweapons.
6) Ally yourself with either Witch Hunter sisters of battle (in rhinos) or Daemonhunter Grey Knights (I especially love Grey Knight Terminators w/Sacred Incense...they're awesome against chaos).
First thought- depends entirely on the skill level of your opponent and the army he is fielding. All of the cult units require a different approach, and some builds are easier to combat than others.
Things we have they don't, frankly this is a short list. Most of our units they not only have mirrors of, but they pack better versions with more abilities.
Example: Basic Chaos Marine. He starts with a bolter, bolt pistol and CCW, so he shoots just as good and gets the bonus attack. He can add an Icon that can boost Attacks, thoughness, Initiative, or give him an invul save.
Land Raider Redeemers are a cool trick. They can shrug off most weapons and kill large numbers of the enemies best troops and deny armor, on top of delivering assault units.
Lysander, he's a tank and can manhandle anything in the CSM list by himself.
Chapter Tactics can give you slight edges, but you'll still have serious issues with the cult troops. Plague Marines can shrug off most of your best shooting and melee and deliver some punishment back. Berzerkers can roll up several of your best melee units without batting an eye. Thousand sons have bolters that cut through your armor and solid invul saves.
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009
is it just me or do the chaos seem a bit... ridiculous?
how would you combat thousand sons, or any other of they're special infantry and troop choices, as well as countering their defilers, daemon princes, and cheaper landraiders?
and i do plan on including one unit of GK terminators ;P
p.s. oh assume that you are fighting a mirror of yourself skillwise... they are just as good as you
Last edited by usmc_red; January 20th, 2009 at 04:58.
we tend to be on the cheaper side too, so we can get more bodies for our bucks. make use of this and don't use too many upgrades or expensive squads (read: vanguard)
Just play blood angels they are also good in CC and use plasma cannons as backup.
I run the lemartes with deathcompany and corbulo combination so everything in 12" has furious charge.
Against chaos i have a streak of 2 wins 2 draw 0 loss.
I know that they are cheaper and have more men then we have but just kill the important untits first and the rest will be easy.
Chaos are cheaper? Huh?
A fully tooled up CSM squad should cost way more than a fully tooled up Tactical squad.
Anyway from the Chaos point of view:
Basic CSMs are miles better in combat due to the extra attack/marks etc. What they dont have is that pesky ATSKNF rule and Combat Tactics. Use these to your advantage.
Cult troops are awesome and hard to deal with but are expensive.
Bezerkers are nasty as hell but a lot of times they will be in a rhino or vehicle so target the vehicle and destroy it as priority. Bezerkers squads are one of the few squads that will feature power weapons quite frequently. Tie them up with a Dreadnought if the Skull Champ doesnt have a fist. Should be easy enough to spot.
Plauge Marines dont get FnP from AP1 and AP2 weapons so load up on these where possible.
Most Choas armies feature a Lash Prince so probably worth investing in a Libarian.
Chapter Masters Orbital Bombardment can be devastating if used correctly.
The same things that kill Marines kill CSMs-lots of plasma death wherever possible.
Scouts with Sniper rifles work very well against Daemon Princes.
If you do get stuck in combat with a DP swamp him with Marines. It will hold him up and wear him down due to attrition (with a bit of luck)
Defilers are too big to hide and their armour isnt great-shoot them and avoid in combat if possible.
Use Telion to target Icon bearers so the unit loses the benefits of the Icon. (wont win many friends with this one)
Dont put all your faith in Sternguard. 1kSons can outrange them and Sternguard dont have a Inv save.
Be prepared for a lot of Deep-striking Terminators/Oblits.
Ive always found 2 units very hard to deal with. Chaplain led assault squad (normally 9/10 strong) and LC terminator squadled by an IC -(normally 6/7 strong in a Land Raider) normally these can outfight most units and the power weapon attacks from the IC can wipe out squads in one go.
Regarding individual missions resist combat-squadding things in Annilihation. 5 man squads are too easy to take down for Chaos. And the exact opposite-combat squad everything in objective games as it makes it that much harder to counter. (Kinda general but what the hell)
Dont like the special characters so cant help there. The majority of Chaos lists will be close combat orientated so halting Rhinos should be top priority.
Hope that helps.
Currently play: 4000+ of Black Legion
Ok my regular play buddy uses CSMs. After a few games of doing rubbish against him I now am starting to do better. I realised the strength of the SMs versus CSM is numbers, bikes and versatility.
Once I started taking bikes & attack bikes versus him I started doing a lot better. Bikes & attack bikes are great in general and I have found them doubly so versus CSM just because it allows me to out manouver them and they pack a punch both at range (attack bikes) and in close combat (with a Captain in a bike squad).
Your troops are a lot cheaper once you take into account heavy weapons. Don't combat squad your units because as stated previously CSMs will eat you up in combat. 5 men is a nice meal for them, 10 with a power weapon will hold them up long enough for your bikes to get into the same combat if required.
Thats just what I have found so far in my experience! Im in the process of adding a unit of Sternguard for some anti CSM shooting fun ...
Actually they way psychic hoods work now I've found libbys to be quite useless. You have to get within range of the power itself to block it and then you're running the risk of eating a lash (and probably multiple plasma cannons, battle cannons, or berzerkers). You either get close enough to risk blocking it and possibly lose the libby or stay back and watch him have his way with your army. A better tactic if he's using lash is to screen your army with vehicles (he can't lash them in case you aren't aware), or take an ally that still has the full range psychic hood.Most Choas armies feature a Lash Prince so probably worth investing in a Libarian.
Blais's Paint Studio-Getting broken armies good soft scores since 2009