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How does IG deal with 2+ saves, terminators and the like? I ma thinking perhaps plenty of plasma would be the best bet
2 x 4 = A forced Termie INV save.
They usually deep strike so there bunch up nice and tight, large templates is a easy way to get rid of the entire unit. Yes I do believe 200 plus pts or more is worth the risk of the template accidently landing on one of our units.
Lascannons, everywhere. If I am playing against a SM player in a friendly game I pack so many Lascanons in my army I have known some oponents to deliberatly start within cover.
Stick them on your Sentinels, in your Squads, take them as heavy weapon Squads, your tanks have them, etc...
Or rock out with the LRD.
"I'm up, they see me, I'm down. I'm up, they see me, I'm down."
I use the Demolisher, too, but I've also discovered meltaguns. As Ckok pointed out, range is usually not an issue, so I simply neglect the missile launcher in my line squads, surround the Termies and open up. The real advantage of melta over plasma is that, if the Terminator squad is low on model count (they usually begin with only five!), I can then charge after firing the melta (no lasguns) and tarpit them for a critical turn, rendering them nearly useless and uncontrollable. The possibility of instakilling a Chaos Lord is nice, too. Saves a lot of work if you pull it off.
"My tanks have names, my men have numbers." -Col. Edmund Grahvess, 23rd Kronecker Prison Guard
Plasma is good and a few squads with Plasma is always a go - okay you have the "Gets Hot" rule but in the immortal words of Hudson (Aliens) "Yeah but its a dry heat"
However when I go tank / terminator hunting I use small, infiltrated, Vet squads with 3 x Meltas. The results tend to be very pleasing even if the squad(s) are have a very high mortality rate.
Armies (W/L/D)
Imperial Guard: 2500pts 10/0/1, Space Marines: 2000pts 22/0/3
CSM: 1750pts 5/0/0, DE: 1850pts 19/0/1, ORKs: 2500pts 11/1/0,
I normally run in a 1500 point list that hit 2+ saves:
2x squads of grenadiers, with 2no Plasma Guns in each (BS4 goodness)
4x squads with a plasma guns
2x remnant squads with a meltagun each
A demolisher
And a power sword on the three officers (Last resort though!)
Recently i've been mucking about with rough riders too, which would be good.
The most effective way of killing terminators i've found is mased fire - with lots and lots of shots they'll die. This includes Template weapons when they deep strike - although if the T's run the effectiveness of this can be lessened.
Let's look at a line squad (80pts - Moved to get better LOS so no H/W firing.):
Guardsmen with lasgun (rapid firing)
= 2 shots, 50% to hit. = 1 hit average
= 1/3 chance of wounding = 33% chance of getting a wound
= 1/6 chance of a failed save = 5.55% chance of a kill per guardsman.
Guardsman with Plasma Gun
= 2 shots, 50% to hit. = 1 hit average
= 5/6 chance of wounding = 83% chance of getting a wound
= 4/6 chance of a failed save (Assuming the terminators are out of cover - especially if they deep striked, or you moved for LOS) = 55.55% chance of a kill per guardsman.
(Ooh! wierd - Exactly ten times more likely!)
*Chance of killing yourself.
= 2no 1/6 chances of overheating. = 33%
= 1/3 chance of saving = 22% chance of dying every time you fire.
So, your average squad will have 50% chance of killing a T. with 9x lasguns firing, and 56% of killing one with a plasmagun. (And a 22% chance of killing the plasma gunner!)
On average you'll kill one per line squad.
So, let's look at my command squad (57 points):
Officer with power sword and laspistol, 2x flamers. All troopers have ccw & laspistol.
Laspistol:
Like the lasgun, but half the amount of shots (I'm assuming you moved)
= 2.77% kills each. (Plain dismal frankly.)
Flamer (assuming you get all five t's.)
= 50% chance of wounding = 2.5 wounds total
= 1/6 chance of failed save = 41.66% chance of killing one!
So, the above command squad will, in a truly average world have a 91.67% chance of killing a T. from shooting.
Then charges (All pistol / assault.)
Now, I hope you've paid attention and got the free doctrine "Close Order Drill" right? (Note - it does NOT work on your HQ choice officer squad, only the command squads that come with the troop choices - weird, I know)
This, since you're placing your chargers first means you can keep base to base contact with one another, and your guys all get +1 Init! guardsmen strike at the same time as marines! Wooo! (Unfortunately they're in combat with a marine, and very poor at it. however,) The officer will also strike beforehand (4+1 = 5! sweet!)
This does not matter with power fists, but it's worth remembering.
so, the officers attacks = 2(base)+1(twin weapons)+1(charge) = 4
= 50% chance of hits = 2 hits average
= 1/3 chance of wounding = 66% chance of getting a wound
= 1/3 chance of invun save = 66% chance of getting a kill (before they strike)
Guardsmen = 1(base) +1(twin weapons)+1(charge) = 3 attacks
= 50% chance of hitting = 1.5 hits average
= 1/3 to wound = 50% chance of a wound
= 1/6 chance of a failed save = 8.3% chance of getting a melee kill.
So, on average you'll have a 99.3% chance of killing one if you charge the unit (with close order drill), after you have a 91.67% chance of killing one with shooting, with the above command squad. However, they're likely to die screaming in future turns (Well, and this one) so pummel that squad first.
Hits back (3xT's, with power fists)
=2no attacks, at 3+ to hit = 1.333 hits average
=5/6 chance of wounding = 1.11 kill per turn
You don't get to save. You've been hit by a power fist, and you're a guardsman.
So, you lose on average 3 guardsmen per turn. The officver has a retinue (squad he can't leave) so can't be picked out.
You lose the combat by 2, and have a LD6 test. (LD7 with close order drill)
Passing a LD7 test = 21/36
Or, a 58.33% chance of passing. Not terrible.
If you survive you can flail about, expecting to die in their turn (61% chance of killing one though, not to be sniffed at.)- this is a good result.
Let's look at my grenadier squad (70 points):
Grenadier with hellgun (rapid firing)
= 2 shots, 66% to hit. = 1.33 hit average
= 1/3 chance of wounding = 44.44% chance of getting a wound
= 1/6 chance of a failed save = 7.41% chance of a kill per Grenadier
Grenadier with Plasma Gun
= 2 shots, 66% to hit. = 1.33 hit average
= 5/6 chance of wounding = 110.83% chance of getting a wound
= 4/6 chance of a failed save (Assuming the terminators are out of cover - especially if they deep striked, or you moved for LOS) = 73.89% chance of a kill per grenadier w. plasma gun.
*Chance of killing yourself.
= 2no 1/6 chances of overheating. = 33%
= 1/2 chance of saving = 16.5% chance of dying every time you fire.
So, this squad will have 18.525% chance of killing a T. with 2x hellguns & a hellpistol firing, and 147.78% of killing one with the plasmaguns. (And a 33% chance of killing a plasma gunner)
Last edited by stayscrunchyinmilk; January 22nd, 2009 at 10:43.
Adeptus Mechanicus Marines: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1655065