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Can anybody tell me why the Honour Guard Chapter Champion has an option to replace his Boltgun with a combat blade? He already gets the +1 A for his power weapon and bolt pistol. It seems to me all you are doing by using that option is throwing away 1 Bolter shot, but maybe there is something I don't see.
My assumption is that because of the bolter being a 2 handed weapon it took away the +1A for having only close combat weapons. So going from a BP/PW/Bolter to a BP/PW/CCW you get that extra attack bonus for having all single handed weapons.
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This is what I think. Originally in 4th ed., boltgun = 2-handed gun (see minis). Relic blade = 2-handed weapon. You can only have 1 2-handed weapon and 2 1-handed weapons. Thus, if you take relic blade, you would have to trade in your boltgun for a combat blade + pistol to make it legal. However, that was 4th ed. 5th ed does not specify whether something is 1 or 2-handed. Whether this oversight by GW was intended or overlooked, I'm not sure. Just thank the fact that you can take both bolters and relic blades. Or if you take a combat and relic blade, I think the minis would look pretty cool holding both swords.
There were no relic blades in 4th.
In 4th you could have 2 weapons, one of which could be 2-handed. In 5th you are no longer restricted to having 1 2-handed weapon and 2 1-handed weapons, you can take as many weapons as the codex entry allows.
You are mixing both 4th and 5th edition. Not sure what point you are trying to make.
Thanks Corianus. That's basically what I thought.
I think the option to take a CCW instead of a bolter initially stems from the Ultramarine chapter champion (bottom right of page 108 in the new codex) model has him using a power weapon and CCW and it does not have a bolter. Since the new codex replaced the Ultramarines only Honour Guard squad with a generic version they needed to include an option to keep that model viable without conversion.
Referring back to the old codex, the armory was clear on what was or wasn't a 1 or 2 hand weapon. By taking the armory away and leaving no reference to how many hands are required to handle a weapon, you could claim that extra attack even with a bolter, but the argument against it based on past experiences and back references is such that I doubt it it would be accepted in any official competition.
Last edited by Cowboy; January 26th, 2009 at 13:42.
A bolter will not give you a +1 in combat when wielded with another ccw as it is a rapid fire weapon.
A Bolt pistol will give you a +1 in combat when wielded with another ccw as it is a pistol which counts as a ccw.
number of hands is not important.
So, the option to replace a bolter with a ccw is there for aesthetic reasons. 2 swords might look cooler than a sword and bolter.
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Again, this is just common sense and very accepted, based on previous experience and old references, since the codex entry that used to specify this situation (Armory) doesn't exist on the the new codex: SM.A Bolt pistol will give you a +1 in combat when wielded with another ccw as it is a pistol which counts as a ccw.I again have to disagree with you on this statement. Just take a look at page 37 of the current rule book, under the topic number of attacks and check the clear reference to the number of hands needed to claim the extra attack.number of hands is not important.This one I have to agree with you (and Corianis) that it would be for aesthetic reasons.So, the option to replace a bolter with a ccw is there for aesthetic reasons. 2 swords might look cooler than a sword and bolter.
Now, unfortunately, my statements are just based on RAW. It is my experience that on official GW tournaments, the reference to old codex and common sense will prevail and we all know that a model using a bolter and a CCW won't be able to claim the extra bonus when charging into CC.
Last edited by Cowboy; January 26th, 2009 at 18:40.
Originally Posted by omegokuAs I haven't got my rulebook with me this long weekend, will have to get back on this.Originally Posted by CowboyNo, because a bolter is a rapid fire weapon, which do not count as CCWs. The argument against it is based on weapon types as defined in the rulebook, not past experience and back references.Originally Posted by Cowboy